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My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?)
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?)
(January 2, 2018 at 3:09 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(December 31, 2017 at 5:47 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Atlas, here's your problem.  If you push on it, the final answer will be "I don't know!"  And you will then happily proclaim, "Aha!  You don't know, therefore God!"

This is an epic logic fail.  The fact is that the origins of the Universe are unknown, and currently unknowable.  But making shit up isn't an improvement over just not knowing.

It's not epic fail at all. Matter in fact, the truth is one, and the opinions are so many.
I believe in an opinion of the many; because to me, personally, it was the most logical. I even believe in it utterly, and subject everything in my life to it.

Now to why I think it's logical: the singularity discussed in the big bang theory, is an object containing space+time+all material in the universe. It blew up to make up the universe as we know it today. I just assume that behind that explosion, there was "something", because singularities don't blow up by their own, we don't even know if there were more singularities with infinite densities, I mean we don't even know what infinity+infinity would yield !

So, which book told us this from ancient times, in a very basic yet understandable matter?
The scenario that the Quran foretold, for example, is the same, if you simplify the language; let me prove to you. Ask yourself these questions, and you'll know why I choose what I choose:

"Did we ever hear about something "outside the limits of time=eternal" before?"

Quote:Sura 112, The Quran:
( 1 )   Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One,
( 2 )   Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
( 3 )   He neither begets nor is born,
( 4 )   Nor is there to Him any equivalent.



"Did we ever hear about a universe, being "repeated", just like the alternate theories, dictate"?
Quote:Sura 407, The Quran:
( 27 )   And it is He who begins creation; then He repeats it, and that is [even] easier for Him. To Him belongs the highest attribute in the heavens and earth. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_singularity

Quote:Alternatives to the singularity

Various new models of what preceded and caused the Big Bang have been proposed as a result of the problems created by quantum mechanics. One model, using loop quantum gravity, aims to explain the beginnings of the Universe through a series of Big Bounces, in which quantum fluctuations cause the Universe to expand. This formulation also predicts a cyclic model of universes, with a new universe being created after an old one is destroyed, each with different physical constants.[3] Another formulation, based on M-theory and observations of the cosmic microwave background (CMB), states that the Universe is but one of many in a multiverse, and has budded off from another universe as a result of quantum fluctuations, as opposed to our Universe being all that exists.[5]

"Who told us that the universe would be destroyed; and a new one will begin"?

Quote:Sura 29, The Quran:
( 19 )   Have they not considered how Allah begins creation and then repeats it? Indeed that, for Allah, is easy.
( 20 )   Say, [O Muhammad], "Travel through the land and observe how He began creation. Then Allah will produce the final creation. Indeed Allah, over all things, is competent."

So if I want to represent my belief to you in modern words I would say:
"I believe there was a big bang, produced by a singularity. Soon, after who knows how much, the universe will end, and I believe all the material in it, will form into a new singularity of infinite density and the process will repeat. Billion billion billion of years; though".

That's why I believe in God. He caused the big bang. He arranged the matter, space and time to produce the universe as we know it, and that is how "fate" is created.

I just read the Quran.. somebody discussed those advanced scientific topics since ancient times.

firstly, the "singularity" part that in your opinion caused the big bang, is just you trying to bend things to suit the quran text you quoted. but seems to me you misunderstood. the reason it says "he who is one" is because at the time the multi god religions were the in-thing so he (creator of islam, a man, men write books, creators of universe would do better in my opinion) wanted to emphasize that it is one god that should be worhipped, not the many gods being worshipped and that they were wrong. it does not mention a singularity causing the big bang. just looks to me as f he is trying to get people to say stuff. or, trying to make it seem as if an angel is telling him to say something.

secondly, the part about creating and destroying the universe. this is just you doing gymnastics again. humans and animals and life on earth is what is being mentioned. not the universe lol. the whole "begins creation then repeats it" means life on earth. which was obvious at the time. things being born. then in addition, it doesnt say anything about destroying? you unintentionally added things to the quran. since you read scientific theories, you were so focused on trying to fit it to the quran that you committed the mistake you despise: when people add their own things to quran. the universe creation and destruction was NOT mentioned. the part you quoted was about human creation. since destruction was NOT mentioned (and we know for a fact that in islam humans only get created and not destroyed, they are eternal) my translation is more probable than yours.

so no atlas, there is no scientific knowledge "way ahead of its time" no matter how much gymnastics will be done, there's always a more reasonable explanation as to why he wrote what he wrote. but not your fault, it's a very vague text, take that in with the willingness of people to find a link with science and religion, is an easy mistake to make.
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Messages In This Thread
My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Dan Brooks - December 27, 2017 at 8:34 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by chimp3 - December 27, 2017 at 9:07 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by shadow - December 30, 2017 at 2:37 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by chimp3 - December 30, 2017 at 1:15 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by shadow - December 30, 2017 at 5:51 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Joods - December 28, 2017 at 10:04 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by brewer - December 27, 2017 at 9:30 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Astreja - December 30, 2017 at 12:58 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Fireball - December 27, 2017 at 10:47 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Fireball - December 28, 2017 at 12:09 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by chimp3 - December 27, 2017 at 11:26 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Brian37 - December 28, 2017 at 9:55 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Brian37 - December 28, 2017 at 8:36 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Grandizer - December 28, 2017 at 10:07 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Astreja - December 29, 2017 at 1:30 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by brewer - December 28, 2017 at 4:54 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by brewer - December 28, 2017 at 5:16 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Brian37 - December 28, 2017 at 4:57 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Cyberman - December 30, 2017 at 12:46 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by brewer - December 28, 2017 at 9:58 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by SaStrike - December 28, 2017 at 10:33 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by brewer - December 29, 2017 at 2:30 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by bennyboy - December 30, 2017 at 11:55 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Astreja - December 30, 2017 at 4:59 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by Joods - December 29, 2017 at 12:37 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by bennyboy - December 30, 2017 at 11:09 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by bennyboy - December 30, 2017 at 12:16 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by brewer - December 30, 2017 at 1:52 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by GUBU - December 31, 2017 at 1:45 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by GUBU - January 1, 2018 at 2:36 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by SaStrike - January 2, 2018 at 5:42 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by brewer - January 1, 2018 at 11:44 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by brewer - January 2, 2018 at 11:37 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by GUBU - January 4, 2018 at 3:16 am
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by GUBU - January 7, 2018 at 6:20 pm
RE: My House Did not have a Builder (or did it?) - by GUBU - January 8, 2018 at 11:20 am

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