(January 1, 2018 at 11:42 pm)Grandizer Wrote:(December 30, 2017 at 11:11 am)Dan Brooks Wrote: There is no evidence whatsoever of macro-evolution, which has to have occurred if evolution was the mechanism by which everything came to be here the way it is now.
But if you accept evolution generally, then macro-evolution is just simply a logical extension of what you already accept.
Quote:Now if this had been happening for so long a time, millions of years worth of evolution tasking place, why is there not a plethora of evidence of intermediate species?
I've read articles and seen heaps of videos on evolution, and what I've learned is that there are all sorts of evidence for [macro]evolution. Maybe you need to watch some videos yourself? There are quite a few relevant videos on YouTube, catered to laypeople like you and me.
Quote:And I don't mean the occasional tooth or jaw bone, I mean piles of bones and other evidence. The type evidence we do see of the species we do know about.
We've got heaps of evidence for evolution in fossils, DNA, vestigial organs, geographical distributions, and so on. Way too much, honestly. That you're in denial about this doesn't make it false. If you're sincere, you will look for some videos on YouTube, and see for yourself. It's good to challenge your views and be open to discarding them in light of newly-learned evidence that contradicts them, after all.
Quote:And yes we don't need a bible to tell us that everything reproduces after it's own kind. That is what we readily observe on a daily basis all over the world, in every aspect of life. We don't observe evolution occurring on a daily basis all over the world in any aspect of life.
Evolution is happening right now, as we speak. It's a process, not some distinct event.
Quote:I didn't mean that we had to have the Bible tell us this. What I mean is, that the way it actually is, agrees with the way the Bible it would be. Evolution, however, requires that things reproduce after a different kind.
Individual reproductions don't directly yield different "kinds" (if by "kind", you mean what I suspect you mean), but that's not what is posited/required by evolution, anyway. Evolution, in the real sense, is not the same as what happens in the Pokemon games. When we talk [macro]-evolution, we are talking about populations, not individual organisms. Over time, populations do evolve from one "kind" to "another". Like I said before, macro-evolution is a logical extension of [micro]-evolution. It's not like, all of a sudden, there is some barrier in the way of further evolution. At least, we see no evidence for such a barrier. On the other hand, we have heaps of evidence for evolution. If you're going to continue to deny this in your next response to me, I will post a video here and demand you at least watch it before repeating the nonsense mantra that there's no evidence.
Quote:So our observation agrees with the Bible, and doesn't agree with evolution.
No, the observation is in harmony with evolution. You just don't understand really what evolution is.
Quote:Dogs coming from wolves is not evolution. They are the same kind.
Wrong, it is evolution. And the Bible doesn't support you here anyway. Nowhere in the Bible does it say dogs and wolves are of the same "kind". You not only don't know much about evolution, you don't even know your Bible.
Quote:You said that belief in God is just a belief. Why can't you also say that belief in evolution is also just a belief?
Because it's not just a belief.
Quote:And there has been plenty of both direct and indirect evidence of God observed here on earth, even by unbelievers.
Really? Can you give one example? I've been looking for any evidence for God for a very long time. Perhaps, you'll be the one to finally show me something.
Quote:Of course, if the unbelievers remain so, then they will explain it away by some other means. But that doesn't mean there has been no evidence.
I partially agree. Just because some people have opted to explain away the evidence doesn't mean it's necessarily not there. But the problem is that there really hasn't been any evidence for God, and that what theists think is evidence for God really isn't evidence.
Quote:As Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I have seen no such extraordinary evidence for evolution, so I see no need to believe in it, just as you have seen no extraordinary evidence for God, so you see no need to believe in Him.
As I said before, when it comes to origins, whatever any of us might believe, it is just a belief.
Well, allow me to beg to differ. Go to YouTube and watch some videos. I say YouTube because there's a good chance you probably won't be bothered to read academic work. That's alright, I'm not too into academic work myself, especially if it contains jargon I have a hard time understanding.
Here's a video for you to watch:
Wolves and dogs can interbreed successfully and have fertile offspring. So can coyotes and dogs, and coyotes and wolves. Successfully interbreeding with fertile offspring makes them the same kind.
Non-kind interbreeding has been accomplished in the lab, but it never produces fertile offspring. So then how could it happen in nature?
And a British anti-Christian hit piece that shows a few slides and tells us that evolution is a fact is not quite enough for me to disavow God. It's certainly not extraordinary evidence. And there are various theories on both origins and evolution, so how can they be called a coherent group of general propositions? He calls evolution a fact. A fact is something that is indisputably the case. Yet it is disputed, and not only by theists, but even among evolutionists themselves. If it were indisputable, it wouldn't be being disputed. But you can of course find a group of people who don't dispute it, therefore making it in that case, technically a "fact". That doesn't make it the truth though. The truth doesn't need anyone to agree with it in order to be true. Evolutionism really is just a belief.
One example of God proving Himself to a nonbeliever was in the life of Nebuchadnezzar. I know this is written in the Bible, so it will likely not be taken seriously, but there is evidence for Nebuchadnezzar in history and non-biblical accounts.
"Nebuchadrezzar appears as a man, initially deceived by bad advisers, who welcomes the situation in which truth is triumphant and God is ."
From Encyclopedia Britannica, hardly a Christian source.