God is so quiet

[LadyForCamus]

Steve, do you realize that just by saying, ‘nothing is’, as in: ‘nothing is an alternative to something’, or that ‘nothing could have been’, you’re already talking about nothing as though it were, in fact, something?  I think you’re the one overthinking it.  As soon as you attempt to conceptualize nothing as an alternative, you’ve already screwed the pooch, because ‘nothing’ cannot be an alternative.  It can’t be anything.   I would say with reasonable certainty that existence did NOT happen. That’s my entire argument: existence has always existed, because that’s what existence is, and what it does.  There is no such possible thing as nothing.  Not even in concept.

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Dean Rickles says it more perfectly than I:

‘What kind of possible world could instantiate there being nothing?’

Okay, I finally had time to listen to the video. I understand your point now. My confusion came in from you and Grandizer moving from the Universe being a necessary entity to the concept of 'existence' and I did not understand the pivot.

I don’t think we’re quite on the same page yet.  I’m not talking just about existence in concept; I’m talking about actual existence itself.  I mean, that’s an irrelevant distinction anyhow. Surely we can agree (as Grand pointed out) that concepts, while not concrete objects, still exist in space-time, yes?

Alright, that makes sense. But as Dean Rickles clearly said (7:00) this reasoning does not apply to concrete objects.

I believe Rickles is simply making that distinction between concrete objects that exist, versus existence as a whole.

the universe does not necessarily exist.

I agree with you that our local universe, exactly as it is today, does not necessarily exist. If the multiverse hypothesis is true, then there are universes popping in and out of existence endlessly.  But, existence itself exists necessarily.

Let’s try thinking of it another way.  If you negate, or subtract all things that exist; if you negate or subtract existence, what are you left with? That answer: ‘‘I’m left with nothing’ is a logical impossibility.   If you’re left with something; with anything, then by definition, it could not be nothing.  I maintain there is no logical alternative to existence, therefore existence is not contingent, and exists necessarily.