Josh McDowell

[Thor]

Let's just make this clear: You measure world suffering by what you are told (via news, etc),

Uhhhh.... not true. I can see suffering with my own eyes. All I have to do is take a walk through the cancer ward of the local hospital.

but in truth you don't know whether God is moving or not.

There's just as much evidence that "God" is moving as there is that The Great Ju-Ju is moving.

God promises that he will show himself, but not until everyone is given the chance to be deceived and wrapped up in their own broken reasons to deny him.

"God" said this? Really? Where? When? Or is this found in a book written by MEN?

Even if he chose to come down now and then, we would attribute every miracle and healing, every special deliverance to something else.

Wrong again. If this deity deigned to appear to us and healed sick people with a wave of his hand, it would be nearly impossible to deny his existence or attribute these healings to "something else". Of course, this has never happened. Shocking....

We'd find something to give the credit to, you know you wouldn't give it to a deity, you'd be quicker to hand it over to science or chance.

If people pray over a sick child and the child recovers, I would be much quicker to credit the child's immune system or the medication taken before I would think the prayers had anything to do with it.

I have an idea! Let's take a group of sick people and treat one group with prayers only and the other group with modern medicine and no prayers. Which group do you think would be most likely to recover? In fact, I'd even have nothing but believers in the prayer group and the modern medicine group would be nothing but atheists! My guess is that modern medicine would be far more beneficial than prayers.

Really, human suffering is the easiest way to be deceived, because you have news papers, television, you have the internet and the smart phone,

You think suffering couldn't be witnessed without any of these modern devices?

you think because you can see suffering, that you can see healing and deliverance too?

Healing? Yes, I've seen modern medicine and people's immune systems heal many maladies. And, yes, I've seen "Deliverance". Quite the movie! Although banjo music now makes me apprehensive.

You think good things are news worthy?

Yes. I've often seen uplifting stories on the news.

You think because you can see what's happening to people's bodies that you can see what's happening to their souls?

Show me a "soul". Yeah, didn't think you could.

And you think because you don't believe in God that he's not working miracles in the lives of people around the world.

No, I don't believe your deity is "working miracles" because there is NO EVIDENCE that he's doing such a thing.

Do you have any way to check whether people feel blessed or not?

What does this have to do with anything? Feeling "blessed" means nothing.

Unless you go to these suffering people, how do you know God is not moving?

Because there is NO EVIDENCE that "God" is "moving".

And how do you know these very people you're "defending" are not followers of God, blessing his name?

Irrelevant. Believers are indoctrinated to the point that no matter what happens to them they can somehow praise their deity. Believers will have a child suffer and die from cancer, yet they'll still thank their god. I find it pretty incredible and rather sickening.

Do you know who suffering people usually depend on? Christians.

So what? Christians are in the majority (at least in the US). If Christians DIDN'T provide most of the help for suffering people there would be something wrong.

They depend on Christians, because some people who believe in nothing serve themselves, while some people who believe in something holy and loving, serve others.

Are you insinuating that atheists don't help others in need? Because that's what it sounds like. And it's a pile of bullshit.

It's clear to me that human suffering is simply another way for you to deny God's existence so you can continue living by your own rules.

No, human suffering proves your statement, "(God) would never allow that which he loves most to suffer unless they chose to suffer", is a lie. And you make the stereotypical fallacy of assuming atheists deny the existence of your deity because we want to "(live) by (our) own rules".

/facepalm/

I (and the vast majority of atheists) very much live by the rules of society. We have no problem doing this. We have no desire to run amuck stealing, raping and killing. It just boggles my mind that someone would need a deity to tell them it is wrong to do such things.

Lastly, your personal decision to deny Christ does absolutely nothing to stop people from suffering around the world,

Gee, no kidding? Then my denying your godboy does just as much to stop suffering as your godboy!

so unless you intend to do something personally about this terrible suffering that is "proof" God isn't real,

I give money to various charities. I help people when I can. And it matters not a whit as far as this debate is concerned.

don't accuse an entity that you can't see of doing nothing,

I'm not accusing an entity I can't see "of doing nothing". I'm saying there is no evidence your entity does anything. Bit of a difference there.

by giving people hope

False hope.

and moving in ways that you can't see,

Or hear. Or notice. Or detect in any way.

this entity is doing more than you ever could.

Crappola.

If I send a care package to an area devestated by a natural disaster I'm doing more than your deity ever does.

If I contribute $5 to a charity I'm doing more than your deity ever does.

If I toss old clothes into the goodwill bin I'm doing more than your deity ever does.

Unless, of course, you can show me where your deity has ever actually done anything.