RE: Is humility a virtue?
March 30, 2018 at 4:19 pm
(This post was last modified: March 30, 2018 at 4:30 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(March 30, 2018 at 3:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think we may be on the same page and just struggling a little over semantics. I'm not sure what the distinction is between guilt and shame, as I see those 2 words as being synonymous.
They're not quite synonymous.... shame is feeling bad about who you are because you think what you did means you're an awful person, whereas guilt is just feeling bad about what you did and trying not to do it again.
This might help. As westerners we live in guilt societies:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_society
Whereas a lot of eastern places such as Japan and China, live in shame societies instead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame_society
Feel free to read up on the differences. And notice how much healthier and less pathological guilt is than shame.
Another example of a shame culture is how organized criminals like the mafia work. All they care about is appearing good and seeming good and not getting caught, and if someone in the mafia family gets known for doing something bad, that dishonors their whole family and hugely extreme punishment gets carried out. That's because shame is so much more extreme and consuming and far less rational than guilt, which focuses on right behavior and conscience instead of honor (the problem with honor is how people react to "dishonor". When a Mafia boss says "You have brought dishonor upon our family" it usually means "You are about to be killed by my right hand man... or I may be so disgusted with you I may just shoot you myself.".... and if a Japanese samurai feels dishonored after losing a sword battle, they'll fucking kill themselves (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku for more on that)).
Quote:The virtue of humility I think can be summed up best in 3 ways:
1. Knowing that you're not always right.
2. Willingness to admit to and apologize for mistakes/wrongdoings.
3. Not seeing yourself above other people.
I agree with all these.
Quote:It has nothing to do with hating yourself, which isn't healthy.
I agree. But I think feelings of guilt are compatible with not-hating yourself for bad things, but I don't think shame is. Shame is a very intense and deep feeling that consumes you in the same way as arrogance does. I see guilt as the direct opposite of pride but I see shame as the opposite of arrogance, basically.
If you don't have the time to read up on both those wikipedia articles much, check this one out instead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt-Sham...f_cultures
Or even if you do...check it out anyway it's interesting.
This part is an interesting quote from it:
Quote:Guilt-Innocence: more associated with Catholicism and Judaism
Shame-Honour: more associated with Islam, Protestantism, and Eastern religions
Fear-Power: more associated with animist and tribal societies
