RE: Oh no not another free will thread.
April 22, 2018 at 10:10 pm
(This post was last modified: April 22, 2018 at 10:31 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(April 22, 2018 at 10:02 pm)henryp Wrote: I like thinking about this stuff with time travel.
In a world with free will, I'm presented with an Apple, a Banana, and a Cucumber. Larry video tapes me choosing the Banana. Larry then sends the video tape back through time to himself 3 hours ago and watches it.
So when the event occurs again, Larry secretly bets George 10 dollars I'll choose the Banana. But this time I choose the Cucumber.
Because Larry knowing the outcome of the reality that occurred doesn't negate the possibilities of other realities occurring.
Of course, you're assuming indeterminism is true there. If all the causes were the same, the same thing would happen again for exactly the same reasons.
If an omniscient being truly knew what would happen, then it would know.
You could go back in time, but then the question is, does the being know that the same thing will happen again? if not, then it knows that something else will happen instead.
In any case, in every reality an omniscient being would know what would happen, no matter how much you time travel, it it truly knows everything in all realities.
Quote:An all knowing being knowing the outcome of the choices we will make doesn't negate our ability to have made other choices.
We just didn't happen to make them.
They're not choices if there are no options. A choice between A and A is not a choice. A choice between A and B is a choice.
Quote: We determined the all-knowing beings knowledge, rather than the all-knowing beings knowledge determining us.
The all-knowing being knows exactly what we will do, which means we can't do other than what it knows we will do.
Quote:I don't believe in free will, but that's how I'd deal with this if I did.
So surely you can see the flaws in your own argument like I can then
![Tongue Tongue](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
(April 22, 2018 at 10:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: God knowing what choices we will freely make, does not mean we didn't freely choose to make those choices lol.
Calling it a free choice doesn't make it a free choice if you can literally only do the thing he knows you will do and nothing else.
Quote:Lutriane explained it well. Unfortunately it seems many people can't grasp it, as I've talked about this many times.
Tsk! Oh dear I really feel alone sometimes lol.
(April 22, 2018 at 10:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: That may be true, but you can't deny the conclusion to prove the argument false, you have to deal with the argument. Also, I believe God innovates in real time, future doesn't exist, he is not bound by time, but neither is time something that exists from beginning to end with him, the present exists, the past once existed, and the future is going to come about and is not determined.
I agree with the bold parts.
(April 22, 2018 at 10:07 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: I remember one of my first major debates on this forum centered around the free will debate where others here couldn't seem to grasp my conception of it. Nothing has changed. That's the beauty of it, though. I don't expect every atheist to agree with me on everything, just as I wouldn't agree with them on everything.
Aw stop, you're making me chuckle to myself knowingly lol.