Oh no not another free will thread.

[RoadRunner79]

What I have come to realize, is that in these discussions, you have to be aware that others may be meaning something different than what we may be thinking.  For instance, in the voting machine analogy.  If the person goes into the voting booth machine, and makes their choice, we would say that they had a free will choice to do so. If however you found that in actuality, the machine was tampered with, and the voter could not have chose otherwise, then it is not free will. I would say that he still made a free  decision, and that the completely external information, that there really wasn’t a choice, does not change a thing as far as free will.

Despite the fact that even his own motives were ultimately predetermined by prior causes that he had no control over lol.

Then you are getting rid of “will” all together; free or otherwise. Likely also getting rid of conscienceness and reason. In which case, you didn’t come to this conclusion through reason.