Oh no not another free will thread.

[Edwardo Piet]

Let me produce the full quote, it's interesting... from Mind and Matter by Bertrand Russell:

a piece of matter is a group of events connected by causal laws, namely, the causal laws of physics. A mind is a group of events connected by causal laws, namely, the causal laws of psychology. An event is not rendered either mental or material by any intrinsic quality, but only by its causal relations. It is perfectly possible for an event to have both the causal relations characteristic of physics and those characteristic of psychology. In that case, the event is both mental and material at once. There is no more difficulty about this than there is about a man being at once a baker and a father. Since we know nothing about the intrinsic quality of physical events except when these are mental events that we directly experience, we cannot say either that the physical world outside our heads is different from the mental world or that it is not. The supposed problem of the relations of mind and matter arises only through mistakenly treating both as "things" and not as groups of events. With the theory that I have been suggesting, the whole problem vanishes.

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I'm talking about causes beyond our experience, you're still talking about our experience. As all knowledge is inside our experience.

This is what this quote is getting at:



^I need to put this in my signature. It's an awesome quote.

Seems like you are poo poo'ing some science because you don't like the result.

No... the science is right. I'm talking about metaphysics. I'm suggesting that less non-sequiturs follow from the absolutely correct results of science than many people, including scientists, think. A scientists job is to do science, not metaphysics.

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I seem to be getting stiff.  

👀

I blame you avatar

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Grandizer understands how I work:

By the way, Hammy is a presentist noumenologically, but scientifically, he seems to agree with the current science of time (as defined in science).

Science is phenomenological, objective reality outside of science is noumenological.

I'm the same with quantum mechanics as a whole I am with the current science of time. Physics says an awful lot about reality as we experience it... but it doesn't contradict the metaphysics of reality actually being causal outside of our experience.