Question

[Simon Moon]

 My problem is, along with the vast majority of believers in Christianity,  is the fact, that we dont know how to defend it well, with excellency.  Sometimes at all.   The only thing that alot of Christians can do is say to you..." well, you just got to have faith".   Then when hammered by people of ya'lls beliefs they get caught off guard and truly have no way to defend themselves.   Thats not good enough.

But here's the thing, even the 'best' apologists (Alvin Plantinga, William Craig, John Lennox, Lewis, Strobel, etc, etc) can not defend their faith.

I have read many of the 'best' books, that have the 'best' arguments and evidence these people have produced, and they all fail. The Kalam Cosmological argument, the argument from design, the Ontological argument, the transcendental argument are ALL fallacious. And none of these apologists can present any demonstrable and falsifiable evidence to support the Christian god claim. Hell, their arguments and evidence even fail to demonstrate a generic god claim.

I don't 'hammer people' on my beliefs. I want theists to support theirs. It is not up to me to defend the claim that gods don't exist, it is up to theists to defend their claim that a god does exist.

 We all need to have faith, (yes you have faith too) that what we believe is truth.

Nope.

I do not believe anything on faith, at least how theists use the word. Faith is not a virtue.

To me, faith is indistinguishable from gullibility. If someone points out that one of my beliefs is based on faith, you know what I will do? I will stop believing it.

But like all of you have said...we have to have something to back that up.  Ya'll want me to take the bible away as some of the evidence but that is where a lot of the evidence and proof starts for me and other christians.

Wrong again.

The Bible is not evidence for your claim, the Bible is your claim. You are starting with a presupposition that the Bible is true, then providing the Bible as your evidence that it is true.

This is circular logic. It is a failure of logic 101.

Why should we believe the Bible?

But we are so Bible illiterate its not even funny.   I have shared my faith, what i believe as truths, with my kids and raised them in a Christian home.  They have been in church their whole life.  The oldest started a community college 2 years ago.  She has taken several classes in which professors have stated to the class "there is no God".

The professors offer no solid proof but will not allow the kids to insert their beliefs into asignment or test.  Now that would bother a lot of other Christians but it doesnt bother my family.

Pardon me if I don't believe this story. But this is pretty standard theist propaganda. The entire movie, "God is Not Dead" was based on this straw man.

Atehist professor myth

Even as an atheist, I would ague against this professor. I would love to know how they are so certain that a god does not exist?

 I dont care about prayer in school or 10 commandments hanging on the walls of government buildings.  But doesnt it seem they need to be fair?  If professors make statements claiming no god then let the kids make their claims as well.  Whatever religion/god that may be.  All that to say this.  Kids who are brought up in the Christian church and home....when they attend college, 85% of them start to question or fall away or completely walk away from their "faith".  Reason... they do not know how to defend what they believe in.  That bothers me.  So i am on here to learn from ya'll.  Like I asked in my very first poat.....What is it that these kids and my kids are hearing that makes them turn away?  What makes people turn away from something they have believed?  I share all this with my kids and wife.  We are walking through this stuff.  I really am sincere when i say thanks for your honesty.

Maybe it is not because theist kids not being able to defend their beliefs. But maybe it's because they have been taught critical thinking?

That is what happened to me. I was a skeptic with regards to all other existential claims, except for my theistic beliefs. Those I compartmentalised in my mind to keep them immune from critical thinking. As soon as I started to examine them (in a sincere attempt to find rational reasons and evidence to support them), they soon collapsed.

I want my kids to be able to defend their belief even if it goes away from what i taught them.  I want them to be sure and confident it.

Here is the thing.

The single best method ever discovered as a path to what is true, or at least what is most likely true, is using demonstrable and falsifiable evidence, reasoned argument, and valid and sound logic.

Faith is not a reliable path to truth. How can it be, when it leads 1.1 billion Hindus to Hinduism, 1.5 billion Muslims to Islam, 2.1 billion Christians, etc.?

And here we atheists are, sitting outside ALL faith based religions, with no reliable method to discern if any of them are correct. And none of you can present a case that meets its burden of proof.

All I know is, ya'll or me is definitly wrong in our belief...period. We all will die... period...and when we do die we will all face the  consequences of our choice for what we belief.

What method should I use in order to tell if your beliefs are true?

How do you know there are consequences for our choices? Because it says to in the Bible? As far as I can tell, and all demonstrable evidence points to, when we die, we are dead.

I cant express how I desperately want my kids to be able to work that out for themselves, be SURE of what they believe and be able to DEFEND what they believe.  That is why i need you guys.  Like i said, i read to them what you say.

So, hypothetical for you...

Let's say, your kids are no longer convinced that a god exists, and they become atheists. You die and go to Heaven. You are in bliss, or whatever you believe Heaven is like.

Now, your children die as atheists, and they are sent to hell (Mark 3:28-30). How could you still be in bliss in Heaven, knowing that your children are being tormented in Hell?

Hell, how could anyone be happy in Heaven knowing that the vast majority of all humans that have ever lived, are in Hell?