(April 28, 2018 at 1:49 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(April 23, 2018 at 7:16 pm)G Alan Wrote: Hi everyone.  First of all I want to be honest and let you know that I am a Bible believing Christian.  I did not join this forum with the intentions to attack, debate, or belittle anyone. I expect the same treatment, please.  I am doing a personal study on the topic of apostasy of the Christian faith. Some believers think that a person of Christian faith can choose to not follow Jesus.  I do have my own beliefs about this subject of which i will not discuss.  I do personally know of one person who kind of turned away for a period of time , but eventually returned to the faith.  I am here to ask if there are any of people who were a bible believing, Christ following, Christian who chose to "walk away" from that belief.  If so, how long were you a follower of Jesus and why did you abandon that faith?  What is your belief now?
Thank you so much for your time.
G.

Well, I'm late to the party, as usual.  Been busy.
But I think I'm the sort of atheist you're looking for.  I was raised Southern Baptist, parents went over to Pentecostal, attended a Pentecostal school.  Bible inerrancy, saved and sanctified, set apart, speaking in tongues, all of that.  I was made to memorize a Bible passage every day and quote it before dinner every night.  We attended two church services every Sunday and choir practice/Bible study every Wednesday night, plus other activities.  In college I did some comparative religion studies.  I have played organ for churches all of my life - in fact, I still do.  I called myself Christian for over 40 years.  
   I have listened to Bible readings and many thousands of sermons.  And I got to a point where I heard various readings and found them unbelievable, often ignorant, and sometimes simply evil and immoral.  Bible inerrancy was the first to go, obviously, as I quickly got to the point where I had to relegate the book to the fiction section - it's clearly a bunch of ancient myths and fantasies.  I have Catholic friends who revere the Bible as a historical document that contains pearls of wisdom given by god - I cannot see it as such.  
   I'm a studious type of person, always reading from multiple sources, and studies in cosmology and archaeology added to the mix.  I simply do not see enough evidence for any sort of creator deity, and certainly not a personal one.  If proof of such a creature should ever be found (without the need for any literature or human mouthpiece) then I will, obviously, change my stance.  But for now - I do not believe that any deities, angels, devils, spirits or ghosts exist.

Hello drfuzzy. Yep you are the sort of atheist i am looking for. Thanks for responding.
Do you know what made your parents go from Southern Baptist to Pentecostal? Were you exposed to speakimg in tongues? Was there anything in particular that you heard during those readings amd 1000's of sermoms that made you stop and say " yep this is it, i do not believe" ?
One more for now.... when you say inerrancy was the first to go.... do you mean you see actual error in the bible or inconsistancy in the bible?
Thanks you for your post.
Also i want to make sure you know as well that i am not here to convert or preach to anyone.

I was a Christian till eight years ago though I stopped going to church when I was nineteen but still retained the belief in God. I became an atheist because I had come to realise that the
pieces did not fit any more. I am still an atheist but am more specifically an apatheist. Since I cannot prove or disprove the existence of God then I simply leave this question unanswered

(April 29, 2018 at 3:17 pm)G Alan Wrote: Nope , you haven't broken me! You guys have asked some really good questions and given me some things to research and think about. I have gotten some nice PMs as well. I shouldve joined this forum later in the year during my "slower" time. I am a farmer and have some long days. Depending on what i am doing i can log on a read some responses and then log off.
I will be on and off as much as i can, if you don't mind. Thanks.

Of course! It's really great to have a theist here giving real consideration to what we have to say. Sadly this is quite rare, and many run off after coming up against more than they can handle.

(April 29, 2018 at 4:36 pm)G Alan Wrote: ...One more for now.... when you say inerrancy was the first to go.... do you mean you see actual error in the bible or inconsistancy in the bible?...

Have you found any errors or inconsistencies in the bible?

(April 29, 2018 at 4:36 pm)G Alan Wrote:

(April 28, 2018 at 1:49 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Well, I'm late to the party, as usual.  Been busy.
But I think I'm the sort of atheist you're looking for.  I was raised Southern Baptist, parents went over to Pentecostal, attended a Pentecostal school.  Bible inerrancy, saved and sanctified, set apart, speaking in tongues, all of that.  I was made to memorize a Bible passage every day and quote it before dinner every night.  We attended two church services every Sunday and choir practice/Bible study every Wednesday night, plus other activities.  In college I did some comparative religion studies.  I have played organ for churches all of my life - in fact, I still do.  I called myself Christian for over 40 years.  
   I have listened to Bible readings and many thousands of sermons.  And I got to a point where I heard various readings and found them unbelievable, often ignorant, and sometimes simply evil and immoral.  Bible inerrancy was the first to go, obviously, as I quickly got to the point where I had to relegate the book to the fiction section - it's clearly a bunch of ancient myths and fantasies.  I have Catholic friends who revere the Bible as a historical document that contains pearls of wisdom given by god - I cannot see it as such.  
   I'm a studious type of person, always reading from multiple sources, and studies in cosmology and archaeology added to the mix.  I simply do not see enough evidence for any sort of creator deity, and certainly not a personal one.  If proof of such a creature should ever be found (without the need for any literature or human mouthpiece) then I will, obviously, change my stance.  But for now - I do not believe that any deities, angels, devils, spirits or ghosts exist.

Hello drfuzzy.  Yep you are the sort of atheist i am looking for. Thanks for responding.  
Do you know what made your parents go from Southern Baptist to Pentecostal?  Were you exposed to speakimg in tongues?  Was there anything in particular that you heard during those readings amd 1000's of sermoms that made you stop and say " yep this is it, i do not believe" ?
One more for now.... when you say inerrancy was the first to go.... do you mean you see actual error in the bible or inconsistancy in the bible?
Thanks you for your post.  
Also i want to make sure you know as well that i am not here to convert or preach to anyone.

"Do you know what made your parents go from Southern Baptist to Pentecostal?"  It was the 60's.  Girls were showing up to church in mini-skirts.  I remember my Mother going to the pastor to complain and getting nowhere.  The "proper modest long dresses" and devotion of the nearby Pentecostal church and school appealed to her.  Sure, there was a lot of speaking in tongues.  

"Was there anything in particular that you heard during those readings amd 1000's of sermoms that made you stop and say " yep this is it, i do not believe" ? "  Of course not.  It was a cumulative process.  When a person has been raised to believe, (in my experience) it takes a LOT of those moments to even get them to stop and think.  

"when you say inerrancy was the first to go.... do you mean you see actual error in the bible or inconsistancy in the bible?"  Actually I think I was shaky on the "inerrancy" part pretty early on.  My brother was pretty bold about raising questions when he found contraditions, and my Mother's answer was always that "if you think you have found a mistake in something that is PERFECT, then you simply don't have enough faith, and God will explain everything when we get to heaven - IF you learn to overcome your doubts and GET to heaven."  I have been heard so many preachers say that if you don't have faith, if you don't have the Holy Spirit within you, you will not be able to understand the Bible.  My experience was 40 years of reading it after drinking the Koolaid and putting on the rose-colored glasses, followed by just reading the book.  

I see a lot of errors and hundreds of contradictions in the bible.

surreptitious57 Wrote:I was a Christian till eight years ago though I stopped going to church when I was nineteen but still retained the belief in God. I became an atheist because I had come to realise that the
pieces did not fit any more. I am still an atheist but am more specifically an apatheist. Since I cannot prove or disprove the existence of God then I simply leave this question unanswered

That's a phenomenon that I think is common. Once you stop going to church and are no longer in 'the bubble/echo chamber' and have a chance to think about things without the constant reinforcement of the beliefs you were raised on; it's easier t examine them critically; and for many people, those beliefs don't stand up to that kind of scrutiny.

I think that's part of what is happening with Millenials and religion: if they (or their parents) leave a church because they perceive a lack of authenticity, charitableness, and consistency; that may turn into somethingism, deism, agnostic theism, or atheism after a few years of not interacting with people of their previous faith except at family events now and then.

(April 29, 2018 at 4:36 pm)G Alan Wrote:

(April 28, 2018 at 1:49 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Well, I'm late to the party, as usual.  Been busy.
But I think I'm the sort of atheist you're looking for.  I was raised Southern Baptist, parents went over to Pentecostal, attended a Pentecostal school.  Bible inerrancy, saved and sanctified, set apart, speaking in tongues, all of that.  I was made to memorize a Bible passage every day and quote it before dinner every night.  We attended two church services every Sunday and choir practice/Bible study every Wednesday night, plus other activities.  In college I did some comparative religion studies.  I have played organ for churches all of my life - in fact, I still do.  I called myself Christian for over 40 years.  
   I have listened to Bible readings and many thousands of sermons.  And I got to a point where I heard various readings and found them unbelievable, often ignorant, and sometimes simply evil and immoral.  Bible inerrancy was the first to go, obviously, as I quickly got to the point where I had to relegate the book to the fiction section - it's clearly a bunch of ancient myths and fantasies.  I have Catholic friends who revere the Bible as a historical document that contains pearls of wisdom given by god - I cannot see it as such.  
   I'm a studious type of person, always reading from multiple sources, and studies in cosmology and archaeology added to the mix.  I simply do not see enough evidence for any sort of creator deity, and certainly not a personal one.  If proof of such a creature should ever be found (without the need for any literature or human mouthpiece) then I will, obviously, change my stance.  But for now - I do not believe that any deities, angels, devils, spirits or ghosts exist.

Hello drfuzzy.  Yep you are the sort of atheist i am looking for. Thanks for responding.  
Do you know what made your parents go from Southern Baptist to Pentecostal?  Were you exposed to speakimg in tongues?  Was there anything in particular that you heard during those readings amd 1000's of sermoms that made you stop and say " yep this is it, i do not believe" ?
One more for now.... when you say inerrancy was the first to go.... do you mean you see actual error in the bible or inconsistancy in the bible?
Thanks you for your post.  
Also i want to make sure you know as well that i am not here to convert or preach to anyone.

Don't mean to rush you -and I'm pretty sure I couldn't if I wanted to- but I've very curious what is going on with you.  I wonder what your doubts are and how your confidence is holding up, if that is something you want to share in this environment.  Anyhow you seem to have a strong center, I look forward to hearing more about whatever it may be that is going on in there.

You're always so nice and civil, whatevs. I like you.

Ahhh .. Cath-y likes her gramps. That's nice. *hugz*

Whateverist,
I do this on my phone so i haven't figured out how to get a quote to here. So i just copy and paste. I need to get my 14 year old daughter to show me what to do.

Anyway you said...." Don't mean to rush you -and I'm pretty sure I couldn't if I wanted to- but I've very curious what is going on with you. I wonder what your doubts are and how your confidence is holding up, if that is something you want to share in this environment. Anyhow you seem to have a strong center, I look forward to hearing more about whatever it may be that is going on in there."

To all ya'll on here....I have nothing to hide. I want ya'll to be honest with me so i will openly and honestly say that ya'll have some dang tough stuff! Your comments and questions are good and make me think. I am very confident and have doubts in what i believe. My problem is, along with the vast majority of believers in Christianity, is the fact, that we dont know how to defend it well, with excellency. Sometimes at all. The only thing that alot of Christians can do is say to you..." well, you just got to have faith". Then when hammered by people of ya'lls beliefs they get caught off guard and truly have no way to defend themselves. Thats not good enough. We all need to have faith, (yes you have faith too) that what we believe is truth. But like all of you have said...we have to have something to back that up. Ya'll want me to take the bible away as some of the evidence but that is where a lot of the evidence and proof starts for me and other christians.
But we are so Bible illiterate its not even funny. I have shared my faith, what i believe as truths, with my kids and raised them in a Christian home. They have been in church their whole life. The oldest started a community college 2 years ago. She has taken several classes in which professors have stated to the class "there is no God". The professors offer no solid proof but will not allow the kids to insert their beliefs into asignment or test. Now that would bother a lot of other Christians but it doesnt bother my family. I dont care about prayer in school or 10 commandments hanging on the walls of government buildings. But doesnt it seem they need to be fair? If professors make statements claiming no god then let the kids make their claims as well. Whatever religion/god that may be. All that to say this. Kids who are brought up in the Christian church and home....when they attend college, 85% of them start to question or fall away or completely walk away from their "faith". Reason... they do not know how to defend what they believe in. That bothers me. So i am on here to learn from ya'll. Like I asked in my very first poat.....What is it that these kids and my kids are hearing that makes them turn away? What makes people turn away from something they have believed? I share all this with my kids and wife. We are walking through this stuff. I really am sincere when i say thanks for your honesty.
I want my kids to be able to defend their belief even if it goes away from what i taught them. I want them to be sure and confident it. All I know is, ya'll or me is definitly wrong in our belief...period. We all will die... period...and when we do die we will all face the consequences of our choice for what we belief. I cant express how I desperately want my kids to be able to work that out for themselves, be SURE of what they believe and be able to DEFEND what they believe. That is why i need you guys. Like i said, i read to them what you say.
Sorry if that sounded like "preaching" to ya'll but i am talking about my kids.
Thanks.