RE: Two questions for theists.
May 11, 2018 at 3:15 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2018 at 3:35 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
There's also the parallel reverse hypothetical for atheists like myself... "How would you feel if you became a theist?/went back to theism and how would the change to theism impact your life overall?" (atheists are welcome to answer this).
My own long ramblely answer to that one is under the following hide tag
My answer is it would depend on the God. I think that, depending on how literally I interpreted notions of Heaven and Hellfire that if I became Christian or Muslim and interpreted Heaven and Hell very literally I would swing very strongly between extreme happiness and intense fear (so I'd be a lot more motivated but also a lot more stressed)... depending on if at the time I felt like I was worthy of Heaven or Hell... and perhaps I'd also preach at people obsessively to save both them and myself.
But if I interpreted it non-literally nothing would change in my life. I also think that if I believed in a God but not Heaven and Hell nothing would change in my life (unless I also believed in specific Biblical or Koranic moral principles, for example... although even then I'd probably struggle to put them into practice as I do my own moral principles now (for starters my standards for morality are so high they're nigh on impossibly and the basic idea is just for each one of us to get as close to those standards as they possibly can).
Without the threat of hellfire or the reward of heaven I'd be quite lazy about putting my moral principles into practice. Of course, it wouldn't make me any less selfish to do those things out of desire for heaven or fear of hell either. It's just far more motivating when you think you're going for a reward and punishment that is eternal and of maximum possible intensity.
In any case I think I'd spend a lot LESS time alone. I'd almost certainly overall be much, much less happy despite the increased motivation and intense joy when I felt like I was going to heaven and doing God's work. Why? Well, I am sure I would overall be much happier because I'd be so intensely stressed even at my best of times (even when experiencing the intense joy for the thrill of feeling worthy of heaven I'd still also feel feelings of stress due to pushing myself so hard to deem myself worthy of getting there)... and as someone on the autistic spectrum, with the intensity in which it affects me, I can barely even cope with mild stress.
I think the only possible way I could believe in God and be happier than I already am was if I believed absolutely everyone was guaranteed to go to heaven without exceptions. As then there's absolutely no pressure to actually do anything so there would be no stress involved but also the thrill of getting to heaven when I die. Although if I believed that strongly enough I may actually attempt suicide to get to heaven... as that's a rational act if you really believe that doing that will get you eternal bliss (and it would be rational for your family and friends to also want that for you)...... although only if you can do it completely painlessly.
So yeah I'm glad I don't believe anything like that.
Although I'm sure that even though if my friends and family believed the same thing they would have to want me to die painlessly to get eternal bliss as quickly as possible if they were to be rational.... in my experience my family and friends aren't as rational as I am so they would probably for some bizarre reason think there was something wrong if I did that and they'd miss me and for some reason not desire the same thing as myself even though if they also believed that they ought to do the same thing for the same reasons. So either they'd be lying about also believing the same thing or confused/deluded/irrational for missing the line of reasoning I presented despite their accepting the conclusion.
So, despite being selfish, because I would not want anyone to suffer from my painless death I would not take my life painlessly to get to heaven simply because my friends and family would suffer if I did so even though they shouldn't suffer and they should also take their lives too if they believe the same things for the exact same reasons (that everyone experiences intense eternal bliss in heaven when they die and that they are able to painlessly get to that). Although perhaps the problem is even if they believed that and I believed it there were also non-mutual friends that would suffer or something like that).
So yeah I guess even if I believed everyone was guaranteed eternal bliss after they die I would not take my life painlessly if I could simply because even if my family and friends also believed this and wanted this and would not suffer either they themselves may actually have friends who I don't share who would suffer when they followed in my footsteps.
So I'd just believe that whenever I eventually die I'd get eternal bliss guaranteed and so would all my friends and family and everyone I cared about (and all non-human sentient beings and animals)... that would make me very happy.
Although I guess it's possible even then I'd be less happy because I may have intense frustrated feelings of impatience such as "I wish I'd hurry up and die so I can get my eternal bliss already! Sheesh. WTF ugh."
I'd probably become an alcoholic and eat less healthily and smoke and give myself lots of other unhealthy habits as long as no friends or family knew I was doing that to shorten my own life span just so I could die sooner and experience guaranteed eternal bliss faster (although they may be more sad if I died sooner in that manner I am not sure as they'd probably be as equally sad if I died later and if they died first I'd also be equally sad for them (although maybe not)).
And then of course if I'm right I'd be likely to 99.999999999999999% experience nothing after my death but I'd also have a shorter and less healthy life.
Yeah so in conclusion I definitely can't think of any form of theism in which I'd be less stressed and more happy, overall.
My own long ramblely answer to that one is under the following hide tag
My answer is it would depend on the God. I think that, depending on how literally I interpreted notions of Heaven and Hellfire that if I became Christian or Muslim and interpreted Heaven and Hell very literally I would swing very strongly between extreme happiness and intense fear (so I'd be a lot more motivated but also a lot more stressed)... depending on if at the time I felt like I was worthy of Heaven or Hell... and perhaps I'd also preach at people obsessively to save both them and myself.
But if I interpreted it non-literally nothing would change in my life. I also think that if I believed in a God but not Heaven and Hell nothing would change in my life (unless I also believed in specific Biblical or Koranic moral principles, for example... although even then I'd probably struggle to put them into practice as I do my own moral principles now (for starters my standards for morality are so high they're nigh on impossibly and the basic idea is just for each one of us to get as close to those standards as they possibly can).
Without the threat of hellfire or the reward of heaven I'd be quite lazy about putting my moral principles into practice. Of course, it wouldn't make me any less selfish to do those things out of desire for heaven or fear of hell either. It's just far more motivating when you think you're going for a reward and punishment that is eternal and of maximum possible intensity.
In any case I think I'd spend a lot LESS time alone. I'd almost certainly overall be much, much less happy despite the increased motivation and intense joy when I felt like I was going to heaven and doing God's work. Why? Well, I am sure I would overall be much happier because I'd be so intensely stressed even at my best of times (even when experiencing the intense joy for the thrill of feeling worthy of heaven I'd still also feel feelings of stress due to pushing myself so hard to deem myself worthy of getting there)... and as someone on the autistic spectrum, with the intensity in which it affects me, I can barely even cope with mild stress.
I think the only possible way I could believe in God and be happier than I already am was if I believed absolutely everyone was guaranteed to go to heaven without exceptions. As then there's absolutely no pressure to actually do anything so there would be no stress involved but also the thrill of getting to heaven when I die. Although if I believed that strongly enough I may actually attempt suicide to get to heaven... as that's a rational act if you really believe that doing that will get you eternal bliss (and it would be rational for your family and friends to also want that for you)...... although only if you can do it completely painlessly.
So yeah I'm glad I don't believe anything like that.
Although I'm sure that even though if my friends and family believed the same thing they would have to want me to die painlessly to get eternal bliss as quickly as possible if they were to be rational.... in my experience my family and friends aren't as rational as I am so they would probably for some bizarre reason think there was something wrong if I did that and they'd miss me and for some reason not desire the same thing as myself even though if they also believed that they ought to do the same thing for the same reasons. So either they'd be lying about also believing the same thing or confused/deluded/irrational for missing the line of reasoning I presented despite their accepting the conclusion.
So, despite being selfish, because I would not want anyone to suffer from my painless death I would not take my life painlessly to get to heaven simply because my friends and family would suffer if I did so even though they shouldn't suffer and they should also take their lives too if they believe the same things for the exact same reasons (that everyone experiences intense eternal bliss in heaven when they die and that they are able to painlessly get to that). Although perhaps the problem is even if they believed that and I believed it there were also non-mutual friends that would suffer or something like that).
So yeah I guess even if I believed everyone was guaranteed eternal bliss after they die I would not take my life painlessly if I could simply because even if my family and friends also believed this and wanted this and would not suffer either they themselves may actually have friends who I don't share who would suffer when they followed in my footsteps.
So I'd just believe that whenever I eventually die I'd get eternal bliss guaranteed and so would all my friends and family and everyone I cared about (and all non-human sentient beings and animals)... that would make me very happy.
Although I guess it's possible even then I'd be less happy because I may have intense frustrated feelings of impatience such as "I wish I'd hurry up and die so I can get my eternal bliss already! Sheesh. WTF ugh."
I'd probably become an alcoholic and eat less healthily and smoke and give myself lots of other unhealthy habits as long as no friends or family knew I was doing that to shorten my own life span just so I could die sooner and experience guaranteed eternal bliss faster (although they may be more sad if I died sooner in that manner I am not sure as they'd probably be as equally sad if I died later and if they died first I'd also be equally sad for them (although maybe not)).
And then of course if I'm right I'd be likely to 99.999999999999999% experience nothing after my death but I'd also have a shorter and less healthy life.
Yeah so in conclusion I definitely can't think of any form of theism in which I'd be less stressed and more happy, overall.
