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New Iowa Law Restricts Abortion To Before Most Women Know They're Pregnant
RE: New Iowa Law Restricts Abortion To Before Most Women Know They're Pregnant
(May 18, 2018 at 9:10 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(May 18, 2018 at 8:00 am)The Industrial Atheist Wrote: No, I'm saying that something that belongs to species human but that doesn't have human intelligence doesn't qualify. Basically if he/she can mentally do things that animals just cannot and has the human emotional experience. I don't see this as a slippery slope at all.
Also, if something is/isn't conscious/sentient.
You could I suppose, mention dolphins, but I would say there would be something more wrong about killing a dolphin(than most animals) unless it would cause more suffering for it (the dolphin) to keep living.
The death of animals is unfortunate, and I personally dislike killing anything. But we eat things that suffer more than aborted fetuses and that have equal or better mental functioning all the time. As others have said more eloquently, it causes more harm to disallow abortion.
Most aborted fetuses clearly have no ability to experience pain.
I don't think humans are that special apart from their mental/emotional faculties. If an animal could think and reason like humans, and had human emotion, I would pretty much consider that animal human in the ways that matter.
It's not about if something/someone is a more or less intelligent human. It's if they meet a threshold.

So where do you put that threshold then?    It would seem that what you are talking about, that there is no significant change, when the baby is born.   So this would seem to put the limit either before (possibly between the 2nd and 3rd trimester)  or if you raise the bar (you had mentioned other animals) it could be as late as 4 years old or so.  It all depends on when you arbitrarily put that line on what you consider human.  

Personally I prefer a biological point of view, in which the fetus is most definitely human.  However for the intelligence thing, could we possibly give them the Kalam cosmological argument, and see how many false fallacies, and how many times they contradict themselves?  One could make the case from a natural selection and evolutionary standpoint to make stupid people less than human.

I think I would put it at 24-28 weeks, which is also when the fetus can be viable. I took a cursory look at Kaalam's Cosmological argument and I don't see how it applies here. I find it inconsistent that it makes the exception for the concept that everything has a cause that came before it, for god. I don't see a reason why he gets an exception. You could say it's just possible that some things existed forever, that's what some physicists think about the Universe. At least that it existed in some form, which may have been energy. Also if some things existed forever, that blows out 2/3 to 3/4 of the argument.
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RE: New Iowa Law Restricts Abortion To Before Most Women Know They're Pregnant - by The Industrial Atheist - May 18, 2018 at 12:42 pm

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