(July 3, 2018 at 1:59 pm)Mathilda Wrote:Now watch Steve pull Dualism nonsense(July 3, 2018 at 1:42 pm)SteveII Wrote: Since experiencing the supernatural (the proposition) is by definition not natural, science would not be able to detect if the experience was really supernatural. Science therefore can't prove the proposition correct. Can it prove it incorrect? No, I don't think so for three reasons:
Nor can science prove that you won't float away if you jump out the window but neither is it a good idea to base your life on the possibility that you will.
(July 3, 2018 at 1:42 pm)SteveII Wrote: 1. The more modest claim is that science can find mechanism and propose theories, but by definition cannot rule out the proposition.
Nor can you rule out the possibility of floating if you jump out a window. So why don't you?
(July 3, 2018 at 1:42 pm)SteveII Wrote: 2. Related to #1, successful opposition to the proposition carries a very high burden of proof because of the nature of the question. The proof must be sufficient to undermine individual intuitions that the proposition is true. I don't think this higher burden of proof can be achieved.
No. You carry the burden of proof because you are the one asserting that there is a supernatural cause. You also need to define what supernatural is and how it is distinct from natural and provide evidence that it exists. In the meantime scientists will continue asserting that there is a natural cause for religious experience and providing evidence, as they have already started to do. You have a lot of catching up to do.
(July 3, 2018 at 1:42 pm)SteveII Wrote: 3. A stronger position is that science can look at the brain and it's mechanisms. The proposition is about the mind and I believe entails a dualism that sets up a barrier which science cannot cross. You can have theories, but they are not really testable because you are dealing with the far side of the mind-body connection.
You are making a false distinction between brain and mind. The mind is an emergent property of the brain. We have plenty of evidence that this is so because when you start to destroy the brain, the mind gets destroyed as well. There is absolutely no evidence or reason to believe that the mind can exist without a brain.
Remember theists must try and limit science so it can't take their unicorns away
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
Inuit Proverb