Atheism

[SteveII]

Religious experiences are a supernatural phenomenon.

So, back on my post number 184 of this thread, I responded to you, and posed a question (which you conveniently ignored).

Here it is again,

I have a friend (an old surfing buddy) that became addicted to alcohol and drugs, was living on the street and doing petty crimes.

One day he walked into a Hindu temple in Los Angeles, and he claims he had a religious experience where he saw Hindu gods, and they communicated with him (the god told him to clean up his life, and that he was hurting his loved ones).

He literally quit alcohol and drugs that day. Cleaned up his life, and now owns a small business, and has a great family. He is still Hindu.

So, what do you think is more likely, he had a real experience with the Hindu god, that caused him to clean up his life, or, he had a real experience, like a change in mental states, that he misinterpreted as communication with Hindu gods?

I'd still like to get your take on this.

I think the built-in awareness of the divine coupled with his knowledge of the right thing to do worked to convince your friend that he experienced a Hindu god. Before you ask why that same reasoning does not apply to Christianity, this is what I wrote a few pages back:

For this argument to work, you have to show that the religious experiences are the same (or largely the same).  A few points:

1. Picture the world of the first/second/third centuries. Christianity was spreading across the Roman empire to India. There were no 'cultural' Christians. The converts were not atheist. They had their religion and religious experiences yet they chose Christianity. Even today, we have millions per year changing religions. We can infer from this that religious experiences are not all created equal.
2. Concepts of those experience are objectively different:
     a. My understanding is that Muslims are not big on inner ongoing religious experiences. They believe in an authoritative God that is too holy and distant to developing a personal relationship that is a constant resource helping you navigate your daily life.
     b. Hindus pursue a feeling of a divine presence as a result of meditation.
     c. Buddhists pursue states of being and enlightenment through various practices. Not sure what is considered divine or not.
     d. Christians believe that God (Holy Spirit) is actually present with you and is a catalyst for such things as the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. There is an actual causal connection between God and us on a daily basis--not a search for something that can be achieved with enough effort.
3. A base level of religious experiences throughout history is evidence that the human mind recognizes the supernatural. Methods of pursuit can be different, incomplete, and wrong.
4. All religions have some version of religious experience. All religions are exclusive. One or none are correct. Assuming they are all incorrect because they all cannot be right is a composition fallacy.

Therefore a conclusion that religious experience is not evidence for Christianity is an assertion. Is may not be proof, but it is evidence for a cumulative case.

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Why can't we have natural effects that infer supernatural causes?

Why can't we have supernatural effects that infer natural causes?

There are. We don't have access to them--being limited in our abilities to examine anything outside the natural world.