RE: Atheism
July 4, 2018 at 9:38 am
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2018 at 9:45 am by I_am_not_mafia.)
(July 4, 2018 at 8:59 am)SteveII Wrote:(July 3, 2018 at 4:57 pm)Mathilda Wrote: 'Lightening is a natural phenomenon. Religious experiences are also a natural phenomenon.'
How do we determine who is correct? I already have an advantage because you don't even know what supernatural means yet we know what natural means. And this enables us to test whether there are natural and scientifically rigorous explanations for religious like experiences (there are).
So your going with "billions of Christians had and continue to have epilepsy" and further, the manifestation of this epilepsy is directly dependent on the worldview one ascribes to--changing if one changes their worldview". I can't argue with that logic.
I never said that. Stop strawmanning and deliberately making it look like I did. Not only is it intellectually dishonest, it's just a way of avoiding answering the question. How do we determine what is and is not a natural / supernatural phenomenon. You cannot say.
(July 4, 2018 at 8:59 am)SteveII Wrote: I said that self-reported experiences with the supernatural are reported by billions for millennium and is therefore evidence of the supernatural.
No, it is only evidence of experiences. Self reporting does not tell us whether the experiences are natural or supernatural.
(July 4, 2018 at 8:59 am)SteveII Wrote: Additionally, there are several other categories of evidence for the supernatural that you are ignoring:
1. The entire contents of the NT
2. The first century church (independent of the NT)
3. Personal miracles (private, specific events that seemed to have a purpose against all odds)
4. Natural theology arguments
None of those are evidence of the supernatural except possibly 3 if they could be verified, which they can't. (assuming of couse we had a definition of supernatural as distinct from natural, which there isn't).
(July 4, 2018 at 8:59 am)SteveII Wrote: OF COURSE the brain is mechanistic. The emergent property of consciousness and why many mental events seem to be non-physical is a complete mystery. Your belief that the brain=mind is a philosophical position, not a scientific one.
No it is a scientific view.
And who said that many mental events seem to be non-physical? All the scientific evidence is that they are physical.
(July 4, 2018 at 8:59 am)SteveII Wrote:(July 4, 2018 at 8:46 am)Mathilda Wrote: If an effect has a natural cause then why isn't it also a natural effect? What makes it supernatural?
God is supernatural.
You are assuming that Mr God exists when there is no evidence for his, or any other god's existance. And like with the term supernatural, there is no unambiguous definition of what a god could possibly be.