Atheism

[RoadRunner79]

Ok no problem.... I just wanted to clarify that their is the issue of what the category error is, and why it’s wrong. Or if you want to change your mind on that statement that’s fine too.

Edit: didn’t mean to sound like I was rushing you.

Naturally caused events, and “super” or, “beyond” or, “outside” or, “seperate from”, naturally caused events are indeed two distinct categories.  Most importantly, they’re the inverse of one another.  We know that naturally caused events have natural causes, because they’re explainable, describable, demonstrable and repeatable within the natural world.  The supernatural?  I’m not even sure what that word means beyond, “not natural”.  What is a “not-natural” cause?

I think that I am wrong, but not about the category error. Attempting to draw conclusions about an allegedly supernatural event by holding it to the same evidentiary standards we use for naturally caused events is absolutely a category error.  That’s like trying to recite the alphabet using only numbers. But, I’ll retract my proposition that, “extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.”  I don’t know how you could even coherently describe a supernatural cause, let alone have any evidence for it. Where the rubber hits the road for me, is that I don’t have any reason to think a “not-natural” thing could even be in existence at all.  That seems like a logically contradictory statement. What is a thing that is in existence, but not natural?  

Now, if you’re saying that the “supernatural” is really just an extension of the natural world, then we’re talking about a single category of things. Naturally caused things. In that case, we can expect some physical evidence for these extra-natural...(?) causes, and correctly apply our evidentiary hierarchy to draw reasonable conclusions about those claims.  Unfortunately though, you’re still faced with the problem that an alleged “extra-natural” event like the virgin birth is a claim that contradicts an overwhelming body of high-quality, scientific evidence to the contrary. All available evidence indicates that human semen is necessary for conception. Heresy, at the very bottom of that hierarchy, certainly wouldn’t even come close to overcoming or overriding that fact.

I see where you are saying that they are separate categories, but that doesn't make a category mistake.  Frankly, I'm not too hung up on calling something natural vs supernatural, unless there is a specific point to be made.   For instance I don't have any idea, what you are saying is the property that is being applied inappropriately.   Are you saying that evidence is incorrect, when considering the supernatural?   Then it would be incorrect, to be asking for evidence at all.   If I see someone go up and hug another, or I see someone go up and stab another, these are categorically different things.  But that category difference doesn't doesn't change the amount of evidence required to believe it.  A category error would be something like asking how much does God weigh?    God is immaterial, and doesn't have a property of weight, so the question doesn't even make sense to ask.  This is what a category error is.   And I still don't see how you are applying it here?  It seems to be just an assertion that these things are different, but not defining why or how these differences applies to you claims about the evidence.  It appears like a slippery slope, where anything could be denied in spite of evidence, and seems to be based more on feeling and subjective knowledge rather than evidence (but I could be misunderstanding you). 

You had said some other things, which I'm going to leave for later.  I think that when you get too much going on in a conversation, it is easy for important things to get lost in the shuffle, and less important things to take over.  In the end, nothing really gets discussed, and one keeps going around in circles coming back to those things that where not discussed.  I think that raising the bar for evidence on certain things seems like a main argument of yours; which is necessary to resolve before going on to other matters.

I look forward to hearing your input on this.

-Brian