RE: Atheism
July 6, 2018 at 12:07 pm
(This post was last modified: July 6, 2018 at 12:18 pm by SteveII.)
(July 6, 2018 at 11:39 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:(July 6, 2018 at 11:18 am)SteveII Wrote: [quote pid='1785910' dateline='1530890212']
But the south americans had no idea of Christ before Columbus. Anither reason to assign it to the bin of ideas.(July 6, 2018 at 11:18 am)SteveII Wrote: You just confused two things.
1. EVERY culture that we have ever heard of has some sort of "god idea".
Indeed but they aren't the god of the bible many have totally different characteristics and there are multiple gods and sometimes no gods at all just spirits or pixies.
(July 6, 2018 at 11:18 am)SteveII Wrote: 2. How do you imagine that South Americans would have heard about the Gospel if no one tells them?
If Christ is the universal god why would they NOT have known?
The only way they would not have known is if the jesus myth is not true.
(July 6, 2018 at 11:18 am)SteveII Wrote: You seem to think you made a point and I just don't see any.
the Abrahamic god is supposed to be universally true according to the people who believe that sort of thing.
If that was right then the jesus myth would have been the predominant idea everywhere without the need for intervention by people who had encountered it.
It would be a universal truth like water is wet. Things fall to the ground when dropped. You see where I am going with that.
It was NOT universally believed so it cannot be universally true.
Is where I was going with that.
You are conflating the Gospel message with some basic level of knowledge of God. Your argument only needs the latter to be true but you want to apply it to the former.
A basic level of knowledge of God is not only possible, it is nearly universal. Almost everyone ever has had an intuition of the supernatural.
(July 6, 2018 at 11:43 am)Mathilda Wrote:(July 6, 2018 at 11:18 am)SteveII Wrote: 2. How do you imagine that South Americans would have heard about the Gospel if no one tells them?
This then tells us that religious experiences are cultural rather than divine.
No, it doesn't. That is a false dichotomy. All it tells that culture affects our concept of the divine.
Quote:Because if they were divine in nature the South Americans would be having experiences containing Xtian imagery before they had heard of the gospel. But experiences only have a Xtian flavour after being exposed to someone proselytising Xtianity.
You are conflating some basic knowledge of God with the specific Gospel Message. There is no rational argument to think a person's concept of God should mirror the complicated atonement doctrines of the NT.
Quote:Because how can your god truly exist but be unable to give people religious experiences before some human has told them about him on his behalf? Either he can appear to humans or he cannot. Why is he dependent on humans to first proselytise for him before he can communicate?
Again, nearly all humans ever born have had a intuition of the supernatural.