RE: Intelligence is a Curse
September 15, 2011 at 3:22 am
(This post was last modified: September 15, 2011 at 3:31 am by Ryft.)
(September 10, 2011 at 6:19 pm)aleialoura Wrote: Last night I had a very passionate religious debate with a Christian. She was, of course, a creationist who argued (when I showed her clear evidence of evolution, etc.) that she could no longer look at the evidence because it would anger Jesus. She went on to claim that being an intelligent person is a "curse." Is this where we are, Christians? Really?
You are not the only person here who displays a curious inability to distinguish between "Christian" and "fundamentalist young-earth creationist," investing your professed intelligence in the contorted mental gymnastics of equating the latter with the former, as if to be a Christian is to be a fundamentalist young-earth creationist. Perhaps it has something to do with where you live, such that these fundamentalists are typical of the Christians you encounter. That is merely a hunch. Nonetheless, the facts of reality defy your conflation; given the two billion or so Christians throughout the world, those fundamentalists actually constitute a minority—albeit an admittedly vocal one. The vast majority of Christians are neither young-earth creationists nor phronemophobic fundamentalists, so it is quite naive of you to expect us to answer for that strange group (who we likewise debate and labor to educate). Do try to distinguish with whom you have these issues, and please stop pretending they represent all two billion of us.
(September 11, 2011 at 11:00 am)aleialoura Wrote: Yes, people who take the Bible seriously are incredibly daft.
Because you say so? Oh please. I am someone who takes the Bible seriously. Please feel free to peruse any of my in-depth posts and demonstrate how I am stupid or a simpleton.
(September 11, 2011 at 11:00 am)aleialoura Wrote: Tell me, what have I said that was unreasonable, and please do quote me.
No problem. See your above comment.
(September 11, 2011 at 11:00 am)aleialoura Wrote: I think if Christians are going to defend and claim to live by the Bible, then they should invoke all the laws in the Bible.
I see. Christians are supposed to toss biblical exegesis out the window if they are going to defend and claim to live by the Bible. And this makes sense to you? Amazing.
(September 11, 2011 at 11:00 am)aleialoura Wrote: The reason Christians selectively disregard Deuteronomy and Leviticus is because it's no longer a part of our culture.
Nice claim. Now support it with cited evidence.
(September 11, 2011 at 11:00 am)aleialoura Wrote: She isn't a stupid person ...
And yet you said, "People who take the Bible seriously are incredibly daft."
These two statements are mutually exclusive. It will be interesting to observe how you clear up this contradiction.
(September 11, 2011 at 11:00 am)aleialoura Wrote: I have converted one Christian to Atheism. We had a long talk ...
I have converted one Atheist to Christianity. We had a long talk about it, and instead of interrupting me and putting her fingers in her ears while rocking back and forth singing, "Lalalalaah," she listened. I explained everything, and by the time I was finished she had this look of pain in her eyes. I put my hands on her shoulders, looked her in the eye and said, "It's okay." She burst into tears, hugged me, and thanked me for freeing her from her ignorance. She and I are still very good friends, and she is currently attending college and majoring in biology. Before that night she had never questioned. She only believed.
(Something tells me you are unlikely to get the point I just made here.)
(September 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm)salty Wrote: Predestined: People who are (predestined to come to Christ) born and will accept Christ in their lifetime, serving him as the Lord ordained for them to serve.
Does God predestine people to come to Christ, as you say here, or does he predestine them "to be conformed to the image of his Son, that his Son would be the firstborn among many brethren," as Scripture says (Rom 8:29; cf. Eph 1:5)?
(September 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm)salty Wrote: Freewill: People who are born with the ability to choose to come to Christ from their own desire to know him.
And who is born with the ability to choose to come to Christ from their own desire to know him? Please support your answer with biblical text.
(September 14, 2011 at 3:19 pm)salty Wrote: What do you lose by following the teachings of Christ? I assert: you lose nothing, instead you gain everything.
Scripture asserts quite the opposite: "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" (Mat 7:21-23). If one is not saved in Christ, then one loses everything—and that salvation is not gained by good works.
"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior" (Titus 3:4-6). "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast" (Eph 2:8-9). "A man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. ... I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing" (Gal 2:16, 21). And so on. Remember, "The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so" (Rom 8:7).
As Donald Fortner once said, "The surest thing that can be said about good works is this: those who think they have them do not, and those who perform them are fully convinced that they haven't."
Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)
called upon to act in accordance with the dictates of reason.
(Oscar Wilde)