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The Jesus Tomb
#29
RE: The Jesus Tomb
(September 27, 2008 at 11:53 am)dagda Wrote: 'The only contemporary accounts of Jesus by Josephus was faked.'

Intresting. Can you elaborate?

Josephus mentions Jesus in his Antiquities
Quote:Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day" (Book XVIII, Chap. iii, sec. 3).

Josephus was AD37. Already he is out of range for first hand witness, but still earlier than the earlier gospels

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/rmsbrg02.htm
Bit of a cut and paste follows, I'm sorry, but there is more at the link above.

Quote:Its language is Christian. Every line proclaims it the work of a Christian writer. "If it be lawful to call him a man." "He was the Christ." "He appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him." These are the words of a Christian, a believer in the divinity of Christ. Josephus was a Jew, a devout believer in the Jewish faith -- the last man in the world to acknowledge the divinity of Christ. The inconsistency of this evidence was early recognized, and Ambrose, writing in the generation succeeding its first appearance (360 A.D.) offers the following explanation, which only a theologian could frame: "If the Jews do not believe us, let them, at least, believe their own writers. Josephus whom they esteem a very great man, hath said this and yet hath he spoken truth after such a manner; and so far was his mind wandered from the right way, that even he was not a believer as to what he himself said; but thus he spake, in order to deliver historical truth, because he thought it not lawful for him to deceive, while yet he was no believer, because of the hardness of his heart, and his perfidious intention."

Its brevity disproves its authenticity. Josephus' work is voluminous and exhaustive. It comprises twenty books. Whole pages are devoted to petty robbers and obscure seditious leaders. Nearly forty chapters are devoted to the life of a single king. Yet this remarkable being, the greatest product of his race, a being of whom the prophets foretold ten thousand wonderful things, a being greater than any earthly king, is dismissed with a dozen lines.

It interrupts the narrative. Section 2 of the chapter containing it gives an account of a Jewish sedition which was suppressed by Pilate with great slaughter. The account ends as follows: "There were a great number of them slain by this means, and others of them ran away wounded; and thus an end was put to this sedition." Section 4, as now numbered, begins with these words: "About the same time also another sad calamity put the Jews into disorder." The one section naturally and logically follows the other. Yet between these two closely connected paragraphs the one relating to Christ is placed; thus making the words, "another sad calamity," refer to the advent of this wise and wonderful being.

The early Christian fathers were not acquainted with it. Justin Martyr, Terullian, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen all would have quoted this passage had it existed in their time. The failure of even one of these fathers to notice it would be sufficient to throw doubt upon its genuineness; the failure of all of them to notice it proves conclusively that it is spurious, that it was not in existence during the second and third centuries.
'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? Jer 8:8
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five. Groucho Marx
Reply



Messages In This Thread
The Jesus Tomb - by Darwinian - September 4, 2008 at 9:23 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Eilonnwy - September 4, 2008 at 9:42 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Brick-top - September 4, 2008 at 11:59 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Eilonnwy - September 5, 2008 at 2:00 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - September 4, 2008 at 10:08 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by StewartP - September 4, 2008 at 11:27 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Boulat - September 4, 2008 at 12:03 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - September 4, 2008 at 4:30 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - September 6, 2008 at 9:43 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - September 6, 2008 at 10:05 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Edwardo Piet - September 22, 2008 at 7:38 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - September 22, 2008 at 10:06 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - September 23, 2008 at 2:18 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Spashie - September 24, 2008 at 8:09 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - September 25, 2008 at 9:13 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by starbucks - September 25, 2008 at 12:18 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - September 26, 2008 at 8:32 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Edwardo Piet - September 26, 2008 at 10:01 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Alan - September 26, 2008 at 10:40 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by starbucks - September 26, 2008 at 10:51 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - September 26, 2008 at 2:36 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - September 26, 2008 at 11:41 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Alan - September 26, 2008 at 11:43 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - September 26, 2008 at 11:44 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by StewartP - September 26, 2008 at 3:08 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - September 27, 2008 at 10:42 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - September 27, 2008 at 11:53 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by StewartP - September 27, 2008 at 2:04 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Alan - September 27, 2008 at 1:57 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - September 28, 2008 at 6:01 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by StewartP - September 28, 2008 at 6:43 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - September 29, 2008 at 12:23 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Edwardo Piet - October 1, 2008 at 9:33 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by dagda - October 1, 2008 at 11:21 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Edwardo Piet - October 1, 2008 at 11:36 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - October 1, 2008 at 2:04 pm
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by Edwardo Piet - October 2, 2008 at 8:17 am
RE: The Jesus Tomb - by chatpilot - October 2, 2008 at 11:13 am

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