(October 8, 2018 at 7:03 am)SteveII Wrote: A quick reminder of definitions:
Evidence refers to pieces of information or facts that help us establish the truth of something. Proof is a conclusion about the truth of something after analyzing the evidence. Evidence is suggestive of a conclusion. Proof is concrete and conclusive. Proof can have different thresholds. Anywhere from more likely than not (preponderance of the evidence), to beyond a reasonable doubt, to absolute. These are all arrived at by considering evidence.
So, to say that I have no evidence is simply wrong. What you mean is that in your opinion, it is not proof. That's fine, I don't care what your opinion is.
Further, What exactly do you mean by "prove"? It seems there are different kinds of proof.There also also different thresholds of proof:
- Scientific proof
- Historical proof
- Logical proofs (both deductive and inductive)
- Proof resulting from personal experience
These lists result in 16 different combinations alone (and I'm sure I missed some).
- Possible
- More likely than not (preponderance of the evidence)
- Beyond reasonable doubt
- Absolute certainty
In my experience, a discussion like the one you are intending is a long series of shifting the goal post until you arrive at demanding something akin to absolute certainty resulting from scientific proof for a specific belief. The problem is that this is not the standard necessary for a rational belief.
Another point, atheist constantly miss the fact that religious belief is due to a cumulative set of reasons to believe--all with their own kind/threshold of proof needed for that particular individual. So, to simply demand "proof" is insufficient. What kind, what threshold, single issue or cumulative, and to what end?
Evidence is information that changes the likelihood the claim is true. The problem is that weak evidence will not change that probability by much and is equivalent to no evidence at all in many cases.
In your list, the evidence is so weak that it doesn't change the probability of there being a deity from by a factor of more than one part in 100. So, it goes from something like .000001% to .0000011%.