(October 11, 2018 at 8:40 am)SteveII Wrote:(October 11, 2018 at 7:46 am)polymath257 Wrote: The way I think about it is that whenever there was time, there was matter, energy, and space. Causality only makes sense *within* the universe because causality requires time and time is part of the universe.
At no point in time was there 'nothing'. If nothing else, there was time.
That's wrong. Causality does not require time--time requires causality (events).
Quote:Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.[1][2][3] Time is a component quantity of various measurements used to sequence events, to compare the duration of events or the intervals between them, and to quantify rates of change of quantities in material reality or in the conscious experience.[4][5][6][7] Time is often referred to as a fourth dimension, along with three spatial dimensions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
In what way does this back your point at all?
I note, by the way, you define causality as events. Not that this changes anything, but it's not exactly just simply events, but rather the connection between events, with one being the cause and the other being the effect. That's causality (at least how we view it intuitively, that is).
But I know why you would want causality to not require time. Because, then, how could your god create anything without time, right?
We're not blind to your theological biases, Steve.