(October 11, 2018 at 9:44 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:(October 11, 2018 at 1:19 pm)SteveII Wrote: I said "might be a miracle". I can't have used the fallacy unless I was making an argument. I was explaining the the probability that if anything is a miracle--context can be a clue--not proof.
You know as well as I do that one does not have to posit a formal, logical argument in order to engage in fallacious reasoning, Steve. I asked you to describe the method you use to distinguish a supernatural cause from an ‘as of yet unexplained’ natural cause. Your answer included a real life example; that if people first prayed for a child with cancer, and then the cancer disappeared, that could be a good reason to think the cause of the healing was supernatural. You and I both know that, “because the second event followed the first” is a faulty reason to think the second event was caused by the first. Your methodology, at least in this one particular instance, is invalid by way of fallacious reasoning. I don’t see that there is much to dispute here.
Your mistake is the larger set of reasons/beliefs that form the context. It's inductive reasoning based on the fact that brain tumors do not generally disappear on their own, the belief that God exists, the belief that God can heal, and the belief that prayer is part of that process as outlined in the NT to effect that intervention. As in any inductive argument, the premises are probabilistic and the conclusions still may not be true. In fact, perhaps the prayers did nothing to change the outcome--that God would have healed him anyway for some other reason. I said before, we cannot know for sure, there is no way to prove it.
Quote:Quote:That is not to say we can't know more about what is supernatural. If you believe in the supernatural, you probably believe in entities like God, angels, human souls, demons and places like heaven and hell. Descriptions of what is supernatural help firm up the concept. Here's a good example: if we have a soul, then by definition it is more than the sum of our electro-chemical processes and is considered supernatural right?
Sure. Those are all the things that it’s not. Or, more to your taste, the “soul” is all of that other stuff we know about, plus some mysterious thing we don’t. What is it then?
Entities that exist and are therefore part of a greater reality that are not bound by the laws of nature that govern the universe. Worldviews that belief it the existence of the supernatural have a particular framework that provide context to the interaction.
Quote:Quote:Further, we believe we have free will and can act with intentionality. We (our soul) effect the physical world by deciding to direct our bodies to do something. There--supernatural causation. Even if you don't believe it, it is coherent.
Hmm? You believe in free will. That’s a claim in and of itself, and I’m not sure how it’s at all related to the concept of a soul, whatever that is. Plenty of people believe in free will but not a soul. Simply put, you haven’t explained what this soul-thing is at all, or how it is technically responsible for the free will you think you have.
Of course I believe in free will. So do most people...because...that is what we experience every waking moment of the day. If you are dualist, you believe the mind is a separate thing from the brain. My particular worldview holds that that mind is our soul and that it will continue to exist after we die.