Atheism is unstoppable.

[Belacqua]

Belaqua, what exactly is your point? What are you trying to get at in this thread? I'm having a hard time understanding your point. What EXACTLY and PRECISELY do you feel like religion does for people?

The last time I asked this your basic sentiment was, "I don't know but it must be doing something" So I'm really hoping you can come up with something better this time.

Thank you for asking. I'll try to be more detailed this time.

First, I think that "I don't know but it must be doing something" is a very good place to begin. We could no doubt live long and happy lives without knowing what this "something" is, but if we're going to criticize other people we have a duty to know what they really think. Just asserting that their reasons are bad -- that they are brainwashed or can't think straight -- is not sufficient. 

I'm sure that a lot of people believe out of habit, or inertia, or because it's easy socially. Not being in their social position, I can't say that's bad of them.

Other people have more conscious, thoughtful reasons. I have spoken to some of them on line. Have you never interacted with a single religious person whom you respect? 

Personally, I have got enormous pleasure from religious sources -- books, paintings, etc. These are fictions which nonetheless improve our understanding of the real world. Off the top of my head, some examples: I had a sort of conceptual understanding of Kant's epistemology, but never felt it deep down, what it's like to be such an animal, until I read William Blake's strange Christian writings. He is not mainstream, but he is firmly rooted in Christian tradition, like that of Meister Eckhart and Nicholas of Cusa. Spending years reading Dante has helped me to think more clearly about morality. Certain of his symbols also clarify important things in the Platonic tradition. 

So when Kit was claiming earlier that non-science-type writing has no value in helping us understand the world, this went against my own experience and the opinions of many wise people. Kukai, aka Kobo Daishi, the founder of Japanese Shingon Buddhism, wrote: "...the esoteric scriptures are so abstruse that their meaning cannot be conveyed except through art." And "...the secrets of the sutras and commentaries can be depicted in art and the essential truths of the esoteric teaching are all set forth therein. Neither teachers nor students can dispense with it. Art is what reveals to us the state of perfection." I believe this based on my own experience. And I think that "art," here, includes fiction.

In a less philosophical way, the more art and the more varied viewpoints we experience, the more rich the world becomes. We learn to value more things and enjoy more things. This comes to us through non-fiction as well, but since fiction tends to be more about value and enjoyment, I have found it most useful. 

While of course I have strong opinions about certain bad things, I do not feel satisfied enough with myself to rule out the wise thinkers from traditions other than my own.