(October 17, 2018 at 11:14 am)OakTree500 Wrote:(October 17, 2018 at 11:06 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: If you are making a claim (such as miracles don't happen) then you have a burden of proof to support that claim. A common misconception among atheists seems to be, that they can make claims, and have no burden of proof to support them. I also don't think that where the claim originates has anything to do with it's validity. Are you saying that people in third world countries don't see as accurately as you (or the scientists). I'm not saying, that people don't lie or are never mistaken. I also don't go to the other extreme of saying that testimony is not evidence (I find that people who do, do so selectively). It's not that it should be received uncritically, however I don't think that rejecting evidence, simply because it doesn't fit your world view is correct and good for learning about reality either. I mean, if I dismissed any evidence for evolution, because I found it unbelievable, and called people liars, I would suspect, that there would be a few people who would make accusations of being in an echo chamber. You can't dismiss evidence, because of what it points to, and then say that there is no evidence.
Kit has it below, but I'm making a claim based upon total lack of miracles in the world today, outside of highly religious/scamming based nations. You say they are 100%, therefore YOU have to prove that not me. I have nothing to show you, as miracles don't exist, so I can't show you anything.
Seems to me like you also can't show me anything, thus I'm correct. Again if you can prove me wrong, feel free to do so.
I can dismiss evidence, when there is none. The bible and it's contents are NOT evidence.
Quote: Are you saying that people in third world countries don't see as accurately as you (or the scientists).
Re this: I'm merely pointing out that those who say that a miracle has happened happen to be from places where a high number of people are A) religious and B) on the take. Take that how you will, it has nothing to do with intellectual superiority or having a degree in any of the sciences. Again, why is it not happening in other places of the world? If Africa more Holy than say England? What's the difference?
If I was understanding you correctly, you claimed that X didn't happen (is 100% false, or something similar), because miracles don't happen (don't exist). Your reasoning seems to be, that any evidence of miracles is not evidence, because miracles cannot happen. They must be lying or mistaken, because of this a priori position, which you don't think that you need to support. Again, if I did this in with another topic, do you think that it would be accepted here (evolution, Trump corruption, existence of Sweden)? I've even had people here before, say that they would not believe, even if they did see a miracle
As to the testimony of the authors of the Bible not being evidence, I would ask again, that you support this claim. Why not? Your reasoning thus far seems to be circular.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther