(October 17, 2018 at 12:59 pm)OakTree500 Wrote: Bloody Hell, RR, you're hard work, you know that?
What you saying is, in short, that nobody can ask for evidence of anything, because if I say "I don't believe X" and you say "i do believe X" then neither of us will confirm/deny because you can't disprove something that has no evidence? You've officially lost the plot here.
I'm just saying, that if you are making a claim, which you appeared to be doing here, then you have a burden of proof towards that claim. It's not just that you are saying you don't believe, but are making a claim about the outside world, which is then being used as a premise to reject the evidence. You have a lot of question begging going on here, and your reasoning isn't very good.... that is what I am saying. You are not just stating a lack of belief, but are making claims that things are false or untrue, and then making premises from that.
Quote:The reason why you would be ridiculed for saying Sweden doesn't exist, is because it does. Feel free to even go there on a plane and prove it to yourself, but the point is we have mountains of evidence outside of one book to prove otherwise.
Ok... so Sweden does exist: if this is true, then you have a problem with your logic which was used similarly to say that Sweden does not exist. It's either flat out wrong, or at minimum needs to be refined a fair amount. I don't need to see Sweden to believe that it exists (I agree).
Quote:When applying the same reasoning to Miracles/god, we have NO EVIDENCE of this. And not just no evidence, like seriously non evidence what so ever. None. Zilch. Nadda. (You get the idea). Maybe your point is that I can't prove it isn't a thing. Maybe that's so, but you can't prove that it is real in any sense of the word. Maybe you call that "stalemate" but the FACT is that there is still no evidence at all. A 2000 year old book, translated several different times, with multiple authors AND multiple changes made over the years full of other "magic" things happening, isn't evidence of anything. Magic does not exist.
Are you making a claim here, or is this another non-claim, that I can ignore?
Quote:Maybe it's me, and I'm not explaining myself correctly, but I really can't fathom what your point is here. It seems to be "I can't prove it, but you can't NOT prove it, so I win", which is so stupid, I have no words.
This started out, based off of a comment of mine, about the logic and reasoning being used to deny evidence. I stated early on (I think it was to you), that I tend not to set large goals of convincing someone of God. I often talk about the more basic principles and reasons being employed. I think that the issue is that you are assuming that I am talking to an end point, when I am talking about the foundations and reasoning being employed in the discussion. I think that you are using bad reasoning, and bad logic. And you seem to agree; unless we are talking about certain things.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther