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I wouldn’t be a Christian
#50
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian
(November 3, 2018 at 6:45 am)wyzas Wrote: Do these "smart christians" denounce parts/sections of the bible?

This sounds like cherry picking. Isn't that what only reading Paradiso would be?
Most of the christians I know are of this sort. They hold up the bible as the word of god, but when the lowest common denominator god show up it's .............. Lalala


Do you think there are no such thing as "smart Christians"? I don't know your background, but this may be a lack of research on your part. 

Sola scriptura literalism is pretty new. Most theologians of the past would have considered it simple-minded, driven by pride ("I can understand it just fine, thanks"), and even idolatrous, since it worships the book rather than God. Biblical hermeneutics is a fascinating field, and has prompted the literature of Christian Europe, even not explicitly religious literature like Proust, to be susceptible in honest ways to different kinds of interpretation. 

Some people will be guilty of cherry-picking, but that's an overly simple way of describing what goes on among -- I'll say it again -- smart Christians. 

As an example, Augustine saw the main message as that of the Gospels, and insisted that the rest be read in this spirit. He wrote:

“So anyone who thinks he has understood the divine scriptures or any part of them, but cannot by his understanding build up this double love of God and neighbour, has not yet succeeded in understanding them.”

A good interpretation will lead our love for our neighbor to increase, according to him. And I know there are parts of the OT which don't lend themselves to that, but he thought these parts were outdone by Jesus. 

He also didn't insist on bibliolatry: 

“Therefore a person strengthened by faith, hope, and love, and who steadfastly holds on to them, has no need of the scriptures except to instruct others. That is why many people, relying on these three things, actually live in solitude without any texts of the scriptures.”

The message and the way of life is what's important, not the text. Dante echoes this at the top of Purgatory, when Virgil tells him that, now he's pure, he should only do what he wants, because it will be right. (Sin is a misdirection of desire.) At that point, the Bible is unnecessary. William Blake, in one of his very last drawings, shows the Bible chained up in Heaven, where it is no longer useful. 

I would never suggest reading only the Paradiso. It's part of a balanced diet. However if I were on a desert island, it'd be in my top ten. 

As for "most of the Christians" you know -- I am fortunate in that I don't have to deal with them. Quality and truth are not decided by majority vote, and I feel no compunction to set them straight. Guarda e passa -- look and pass on. 

(November 3, 2018 at 6:50 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: This thing is, I'm ill-prepared to argue on Plato's behalf as far as this goes. I feel like I'd want to read Timaeus before undertaking such a task. The only argument I feel confident in making to this end is that (given his propensity toward employing myth and allegory) it is unwise to approach him too literally on a given matter--and I've said as much already.

That's also making me a bit shy. I'd have to re-read a lot, and I'm deep into other things now. So to do a good job would require special effort. 

Quote:That being said, I've dipped into some of Plato's Late works and found them rather difficult and dissatisfying. I'm much more a fan of the Early/Middle period writings, with (surprise!) the Republic being my most favorite. (The Symposium and Phaedrus are my second and third favorites respectively.) That probably indicates 1) what I like about Plato to start with and 2) the amount of interest I have in the Late works.

For me, the Symposium and the Phaedrus are about the best things ever written. They continue to grow on me. And I've been told by people who are comfortable in Classical Greek that they are among the most beautiful things ever written in that language. They are truly great works of art. I guess I need to be disciplined and work more on the late things, rather than just re-read these two over and over...

Have you seen the book Plato's Philosophers: The Coherence of the Dialogues by Catherine H. Zuckert? This comes highly recommended. Because I know you don't have enough to read already! Ha!
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Messages In This Thread
I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - October 31, 2018 at 8:02 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by onlinebiker - October 31, 2018 at 8:04 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - October 31, 2018 at 8:05 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by onlinebiker - October 31, 2018 at 8:12 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 31, 2018 at 8:21 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - October 31, 2018 at 8:08 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Chad32 - October 31, 2018 at 8:25 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Ravenshire - October 31, 2018 at 4:37 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 2, 2018 at 8:47 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 3, 2018 at 6:45 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 7:28 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 3, 2018 at 7:50 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 8:16 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 3, 2018 at 8:20 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 9:08 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 3, 2018 at 9:28 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 10:51 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 4, 2018 at 10:30 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 4, 2018 at 8:11 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 6, 2018 at 1:06 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 6, 2018 at 2:24 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 6, 2018 at 6:59 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 6, 2018 at 8:01 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 7, 2018 at 1:28 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 7, 2018 at 4:47 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 7, 2018 at 9:33 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 7, 2018 at 9:04 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 7, 2018 at 5:01 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 7, 2018 at 9:32 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 7, 2018 at 6:19 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 7, 2018 at 6:46 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 7, 2018 at 7:20 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - October 31, 2018 at 10:15 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - October 31, 2018 at 10:52 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - October 31, 2018 at 11:38 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - October 31, 2018 at 12:52 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - October 31, 2018 at 1:00 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2018 at 10:54 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Brian37 - October 31, 2018 at 11:11 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Drich - October 31, 2018 at 1:32 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Minimalist - October 31, 2018 at 1:33 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Drich - October 31, 2018 at 1:40 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Valkyrie - October 31, 2018 at 1:38 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Dr H - October 31, 2018 at 3:43 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2018 at 3:49 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Drich - November 1, 2018 at 9:09 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Angrboda - November 1, 2018 at 9:13 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by DodosAreDead - November 1, 2018 at 9:16 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Dr H - November 2, 2018 at 7:31 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Drich - November 1, 2018 at 9:38 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Minimalist - October 31, 2018 at 5:00 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - October 31, 2018 at 6:03 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Chad32 - October 31, 2018 at 6:47 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Minimalist - November 2, 2018 at 8:13 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 2, 2018 at 11:35 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Angrboda - November 3, 2018 at 5:07 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 3, 2018 at 5:18 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 6:19 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 3, 2018 at 6:50 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - November 3, 2018 at 1:56 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 2:31 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - November 3, 2018 at 3:44 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 4:05 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 3, 2018 at 4:08 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - November 3, 2018 at 4:09 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 4:14 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 3, 2018 at 4:39 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 4:56 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 3, 2018 at 5:35 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - November 3, 2018 at 4:54 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - November 3, 2018 at 5:28 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 3, 2018 at 9:02 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 3, 2018 at 10:31 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 3, 2018 at 12:35 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by no one - November 3, 2018 at 1:23 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 3, 2018 at 11:51 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 4, 2018 at 10:34 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - November 4, 2018 at 9:57 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by robvalue - November 4, 2018 at 10:57 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 6, 2018 at 5:12 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Whateverist - November 6, 2018 at 5:17 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Drich - November 7, 2018 at 3:08 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by vulcanlogician - November 7, 2018 at 3:58 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 7, 2018 at 8:29 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 8, 2018 at 12:31 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 8, 2018 at 8:08 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 8, 2018 at 10:23 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 8, 2018 at 6:12 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 8, 2018 at 6:48 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 8, 2018 at 7:12 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by brewer - November 8, 2018 at 7:41 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 8, 2018 at 8:47 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Mister Agenda - November 8, 2018 at 10:14 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 8, 2018 at 6:47 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 8, 2018 at 6:57 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2018 at 10:37 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Angrboda - November 9, 2018 at 10:58 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 9, 2018 at 6:50 pm
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2018 at 11:47 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 3:17 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 11, 2018 at 3:58 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 4:09 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 11, 2018 at 4:20 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 4:25 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 11, 2018 at 4:34 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 4:39 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 11, 2018 at 4:51 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 5:01 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 11, 2018 at 5:25 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Peebo-Thuhlu - November 11, 2018 at 5:31 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 5:45 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 11, 2018 at 6:22 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 6:35 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by Belacqua - November 11, 2018 at 6:52 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 6:58 am
RE: I wouldn’t be a Christian - by The Grand Nudger - November 11, 2018 at 12:31 pm

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