Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 4, 2025, 12:34 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Was sin necessary for knowledge?
#5
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge?
(November 16, 2018 at 2:12 pm)A Theist Wrote:
(November 16, 2018 at 1:57 pm)John V Wrote: Will post my thoughts later. Wanted to get the first thread in the new forum!
Can you be more specific? I know that God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, so they had that knowledge not to do so. Are you asking if sin was necessary for the spreading of knowledge in all areas like, science, medicine, i.e.?

A common atheist complaint is that:

- knowledge is generally considered to be good, but
- A&E could only gain knowledge of good and evil by sinning.

I'm working from the common, but not universal, position that before the snake tempted them they were naive - neither righteous nor sinners.

They sin. Note that they don't just get knowledge of evil through sinning - they get knowledge of both good and evil, even though they hadn't done good.

So, if doing one gives knowledge of both, it stands to reason that doing good - rejecting the snake's temptation - would have likewise opened their eyes to both good and evil.

Also consider the angels. Using the common Christian position that the snake, Lucifer, Satan, the dragon in Revelation, etc. are all references to the same being, we see that:

- Lucifer was tempted internally, succumbed to the temptation, and went to evil (Isa 14)
- He tempted A&E, and they fell
- He probably tempted the other angels, and a third of them fell (Rev 12:4)
- Two thirds of the angels did not fall

It seems clear that the godly angels did not sin, yet they apparently have knowledge of both good and evil.

So, A&E could have gained the same knowledge by rejecting the snake as they got from eating the fruit.

(Note that this is speculative and has nothing to do with God's foreknowledge. I believe God knew that they would fall. The point is that theoretically that wasn't the only way for them to gain knowledge of good and evil.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 16, 2018 at 1:57 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by A Theist - November 16, 2018 at 2:12 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 16, 2018 at 2:32 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Belacqua - November 17, 2018 at 3:04 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Angrboda - November 17, 2018 at 10:01 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Belacqua - November 17, 2018 at 6:44 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 17, 2018 at 1:15 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Belacqua - November 17, 2018 at 6:50 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Catholic_Lady - November 16, 2018 at 2:24 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 2:31 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 2:34 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Tiberius - November 16, 2018 at 2:38 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 16, 2018 at 3:09 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by A Theist - November 16, 2018 at 4:53 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 17, 2018 at 6:22 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by A Theist - November 17, 2018 at 1:56 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Silver - November 16, 2018 at 3:04 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 3:24 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 16, 2018 at 3:35 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Silver - November 16, 2018 at 3:37 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 16, 2018 at 4:15 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Silver - November 16, 2018 at 4:16 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Silver - November 16, 2018 at 3:25 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 3:39 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 16, 2018 at 4:17 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 4:27 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 16, 2018 at 4:45 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 4:53 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 16, 2018 at 6:26 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Catholic_Lady - November 16, 2018 at 6:31 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 16, 2018 at 6:37 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Catholic_Lady - November 16, 2018 at 7:03 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by pocaracas - November 16, 2018 at 6:38 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by vulcanlogician - November 16, 2018 at 6:41 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 16, 2018 at 7:03 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Catholic_Lady - November 16, 2018 at 7:15 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 17, 2018 at 2:12 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by vulcanlogician - November 16, 2018 at 8:18 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 6:55 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 7:09 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 7:18 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 8:23 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by vulcanlogician - November 16, 2018 at 8:35 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 8:47 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Angrboda - November 16, 2018 at 9:15 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 16, 2018 at 9:19 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 8:28 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 17, 2018 at 8:36 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 2:18 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 17, 2018 at 2:32 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 2:39 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 17, 2018 at 2:45 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 2:49 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 17, 2018 at 2:53 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 3:02 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 17, 2018 at 10:36 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 6:50 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 6:52 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Belacqua - November 17, 2018 at 7:02 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 7:03 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by John V - November 18, 2018 at 8:22 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by pocaracas - November 18, 2018 at 12:46 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2018 at 11:40 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by tackattack - November 18, 2018 at 12:52 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 18, 2018 at 1:03 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by pocaracas - November 18, 2018 at 1:06 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 18, 2018 at 1:08 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by pocaracas - November 18, 2018 at 1:09 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 18, 2018 at 1:11 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by The Grand Nudger - November 18, 2018 at 9:12 am
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Catholic_Lady - November 18, 2018 at 8:55 pm
RE: Was sin necessary for knowledge? - by Grandizer - November 18, 2018 at 10:59 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Explain This #1: Belief vs. Knowledge GrandizerII 23 5482 January 16, 2018 at 6:55 am
Last Post: GrandizerII
  Peanut Gallery Thread for Explain This #1: Belief vs. Knowledge GrandizerII 22 5263 January 12, 2018 at 10:30 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Lately, there has not been much need for me to provide my knowledge Silver 5 1969 June 16, 2017 at 9:29 am
Last Post: vorlon13
  No DHS necessary Rokcet Scientist 21 7761 March 20, 2012 at 2:54 am
Last Post: Rokcet Scientist



Users browsing this thread: 3 Guest(s)