Atheism, Deism & Christianity

[Cinjin]

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All the established religions of the world are considered "revealed religions". Deism is considered "natural religion". In other words, we don't pretend to know God. We don't assign him a personality or the human attributes that yours and many other religions assign him/her/it. To do so is dishonest as we believe there is no way to know the Creator of the universe. If you feel that this is a denial of your god's person and character, than feel free to thinks so. Obviously we do indeed deny your god's character, and all the world's gods for that matter. On a side note, you'll notice that all the world's gods, especially yours, are all-powerful amazing beings that have never been proven to exist and yet somehow, amazingly enough, all have painfully human characteristics. Jealousy, wrath, envy, kindness, mercy, vengeance, etc. It is obvious to a deist that any god that has human characteristics, especially so many horrible ones, is a concoction of the human mind. A made up entity.

Well, on the flipside of this statement, we have the fact that man is created in Gods image. So, the reason that both God and man have some similar characteristics is because there is a likeness between them. This is not to imply an equality. The characteristics of God are transcendent of man, and the emotions that we have cannot be contrasted to what God might feel. It is only to say that we were patterned after Him in some respect. God also anthropomorphises Himself, most notably in the person of Jesus Christ, so that we can better relate to Him.

I agree that the way that human emotions can sometimes be expressed is quite savage and shameful. However, since humanity is inherently corrupt this isn't surprising. So, the way human beings express their feelings isn't good evidence to suggest that the mere fact of having feelings is some kind of deficiency on Gods part. It would only be evidence if it could be proven that these feelings were inconsistent with His other characteristics, such as holiness, goodness and perfection.

I am not telling you this to convert you, as we believe that your soul is already spoken for regardless of what you believe. I'm only telling you because you asked. I couldn't care less what you choose to believe, just as long as you keep it to yourself.

I would ask what you believe will happen to my soul and what evidence do you have for it?

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Now that the reply is out of the way, I want to say first of all that my goal in this debate is to have a civil discussion about our beliefs, free from acrimony. This is my position:

I am a former lifetime agnostic. When I came to the realization that there is a higher power, I became a Theist. After 7 or 8 years I converted to Christianity. I became a Christian because I received revelation that the bible was true, and this before I read or understood anything about it. I was not converted by anyone, in fact not one person had ever witnessed to me in my entire life. I came to the faith independently, because of revelation I had received about God.

I am a fundemental, bible believing Christian. I believe in a literal 6 day creation and the literal truth of Gods word.

So, I guess I'll begin by asking you a few questions.

1. I have seen from your profile that you were a former Christian. What specifically led you to walk away from the faith?

The more I researched my Bible and the documented history of Christianity the more I realized how utterly 'the same' it was as all the rest. Plus, by the time I was in grade school I thought it twisted and evil to scare people into salvation.

2. From there, what led you to Deism, and why not atheism or agnosticism instead?

I tried on several different religions including both atheism and agnosticism. I found deism gave me the peace of mind I was looking for --- which is... stop worrying about all this bull shit - it's out of your hands. Which in my opinion, is not that far away from an atheists view anyway, which is maybe why I like them so much.

3. Is God involved in our world at all today, in any way? Was he ever (beyond initial creation)?

I have no idea. Nor do I care. Once again, I remind you, I don't worship God and since there is no way for me to know him, I will only assume the most basics of things. One would be that he exists, and two that he created on some level ... or as DP would say, "got the ball rolling."

4. What are your thoughts and feelings about the Deist God? What is he to you, and how do you relate to him?

It is pointless foolishness to pretend that you know who God is and then pretend that he's talking to you by means of an ancient book ... or in any way whatsoever. This is one of the most essential parts of deism: I don't believe in God because I need him. I don't need him anymore than he needs me. He is not a part of my life in any way. I believe in God because for some reason, unbeknownst to me, I like the idea, and I like having an ounce of faith to my 1000 lbs of rational logic.
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Now a couple replies to you ....

So, the reason that both God and man have some similar characteristics is because there is a likeness between them.

A very convenient explanation of how god just happens to be absolutely identical to humans. Also, this information comes from a book written by humans. hmm?

The characteristics of God are transcendent of man, and the emotions that we have cannot be contrasted to what God might feel.

Except that they are not transcendent, as you wish they were - constantly, and throughout the Bible, writers even boast of god's envy and wrath. Warning humans about the dangers of pissing off god. One could even argue that god's pension for killing people who don't think exactly like you do could've ONLY come from the mind of a human being.

God also anthropomorphises Himself, most notably in the person of Jesus Christ, so that we can better relate to Him.

Even if this were true (obviously we both already know I don't think it is) I fail to see how a deity walking around on earth for only 30 some odd years in an isolated geographic location, preaching doctrines that conflict with each other could possibly enable humans around the world and throughout time to better relate to him.

I would ask what you believe will happen to my soul and what evidence do you have for it?

I have no idea what happens to my soul. It's of none of my concern if I even have one, let alone what happens to it. What evidence? REALLY? Are we still on evidence??? THERE IS NONE!!! Should I quote a really old book that contradicts itself constantly?? Is THAT the evidence you want me to produce?!?!? I just told you that deists don't believe in any other evidence other than the world around us because man-made books full of your precious "evidence" are just that ... man made.

I am not here to prove deism to you or anyone else. There is no evidence of an afterlife ... and the "evidence" that you THINK you have is no more valid than the "evidence" that the Muslims think they have.