Atheism, Deism & Christianity

[lucent]

The more I researched my Bible and the documented history of Christianity the more I realized how utterly 'the same' it was as all the rest. Plus, by the time I was in grade school I thought it twisted and evil to scare people into salvation.

I'm surprised at this comment because anyone who has studied comparitive religion knows that there are big differences between Christianity and the other religions. You might find some superficial contrasts here and there, but overall, Christianity is unique among them.

First, because salvation is by Grace and not works.

Galatians 2:16

yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Other forms of religion subscribe to a system of works which will somehow make us "good" enough to please God. Christianity says that no one is good enough to merit favor, and that it only by grace we are saved.

Second, Christianity isn't a religious system, it is a direct relationship with God. A relationship that God initiated and actively maintians. We believe that humans were created for this purpose, but separated from God because of sin. That's why Jesus Christ came to Earth, to restore that relationship. He paid the price no one else could pay. Other religions teach about the works you must do to work off your evil, and hope the scales weigh at the end..but the work of Jesus Christ is finished. His death on the cross satisfied the requirements of the law, and by His stripes are we healed. He overcame the world and conquered death on Calvary. He rose again and ascended to the right hand of the power of God, where He lives to make intercession for believers forever.

Further, those who have been redeemed by His blood, are adopted into the family of God as His own children, sons and daughters of God. Believers are also the very "body of Christ", of which He is the head. There no other religion that makes anything even approaching these kind of claims.

The third thing is the resurrection itself. His life, death and resurrection were witnessed by many, even hostile witnesses. It is proof that Jesus did what He said He would do. Only in Christianity do we have the person of Christ, who claimed to be God, peformed miracles to prove it, died and rose from the dead, and claimed that He alone is the way the truth and the life, and that no comes to the Father but by Him.

Also, people don't come to Christianity out of fear. I know I certainly didn't. People come to Christianity because they know they need a savior, and that savior is Jesus Christ. Anyone coming to Christianity because they're afraid of hell, I would say that is a false conversion at best. Try reading peoples testimonies some time. I could point you to hundreds, or even thousands of them that fear of hell doesn't factor in. If you know God exists, the logical thing is to get to know Him. People who know God exists come to Christ to be healed.

It sounds like you never gave your life over to Jesus. There are many ex-christians like you who became disillusioned because they never understood its a personal relationship, not a bunch of rules you follow.

I tried on several different religions including both atheism and agnosticism. I found deism gave me the peace of mind I was looking for --- which is... stop worrying about all this bull shit - it's out of your hands. Which in my opinion, is not that far away from an atheists view anyway, which is maybe why I like them so much.

So in other words, you believe in Deism because you want to?

I have no idea. Nor do I care. Once again, I remind you, I don't worship God and since there is no way for me to know him, I will only assume the most basics of things. One would be that he exists, and two that he created on some level ... or as DP would say, "got the ball rolling."

You're making a huge assumption by saying He isn't involved. So I'll ask, why do believe that He isn't?

It is pointless foolishness to pretend that you know who God is and then pretend that he's talking to you by means of an ancient book ... or in any way whatsoever. This is one of the most essential parts of deism: I don't believe in God because I need him. I don't need him anymore than he needs me. He is not a part of my life in any way. I believe in God because for some reason, unbeknownst to me, I like the idea, and I like having an ounce of faith to my 1000 lbs of rational logic.

It's hardly foolish or pointless if God has directly communicated with us. And you only partially answered the question. I want to know what you think about him. What is this God to you? Do you have any feelings towards this God what so ever?

A very convenient explanation of how god just happens to be absolutely identical to humans. Also, this information comes from a book written by humans. hmm?

He isn't absolutely identical to human beings.

Isaiah 55:9

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

From the very beginning of the bible, it states that man is made in Gods image. That is the source of the similarity. That we turn something good into something wretched doesn't speak to the attributes of God.

Except that they are not transcendent, as you wish they were - constantly, and throughout the Bible, writers even boast of god's envy and wrath. Warning humans about the dangers of pissing off god. One could even argue that god's pension for killing people who don't think exactly like you do could've ONLY come from the mind of a human being.

Firstly, God is not envious, as He has no rivals and lacks nothing. Second, God is perfectly just. In order to maintain His righteous standard, God must judge sin. God didn't judge people for not thinking like I do, He judged them because they were wicked. God also tempers His justice with mercy, the foremost example being the work of Jesus Christ.

Even if this were true (obviously we both already know I don't think it is) I fail to see how a deity walking around on earth for only 30 some odd years in an isolated geographic location, preaching doctrines that conflict with each other could possibly enable humans around the world and throughout time to better relate to him.

His doctrines don't conflict with eachother. I'd be happy to clear up your misunderstanding, though. And He enabled humans to better relate to Him by the fact that He became human himself, and suffered as we suffer. The geography and time obviously isn't an issue..He sent his apostles to preach the gospel to the whole world..and here we are 2000 years later and there are over 2 billion Christians in the world.

I have no idea what happens to my soul. It's of none of my concern if I even have one, let alone what happens to it. What evidence? REALLY? Are we still on evidence??? THERE IS NONE!!! Should I quote a really old book that contradicts itself constantly?? Is THAT the evidence you want me to produce?!?!? I just told you that deists don't believe in any other evidence other than the world around us because man-made books full of your precious "evidence" are just that ... man made.

You said my soul was spoken for so that led me to believe you had a specific belief and perhaps evidence to substantiate it. What evidence from the world leads you to believe there is a God? Why, if there is a God, are you content to die with no answers from him?

I am not here to prove deism to you or anyone else. There is no evidence of an afterlife ... and the "evidence" that you THINK you have is no more valid than the "evidence" that the Muslims think they have.

We're here to have a debate, I am assuming. I'm not asking you to prove Deism, I am just trying to find out why you believe what you do. Surely you have good reasons for your beliefs?

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How the hell did I miss this beauty:

I became a Christian because I received revelation that the bible was true, and this before I read or understood anything about it.

Please DO TELL what revelation you received that the bible was TRUE?

(can't hardly wait for this)

He showed me that He is a triune God, and that there is a Messiah, someone whose job it is to save the world. This is before I understood what any of that really meant. So when I got to the bible I immediately recognized it was about the God I already knew. Further, I was shown that He is sovereign and in absolute control of everything. And also, He showed me His love, mercy, and benevolence, which are clearly perceived from it.