RE: Atheism, Deism & Christianity
October 1, 2011 at 6:13 am
(This post was last modified: October 1, 2011 at 6:16 am by lucent.)
(October 1, 2011 at 12:50 am)Cinjin Wrote: Actually, blood cleansing, human sacrifice, baptism, virgin births, etc. etc. came about long before Christianity did. In order to make your statement even remotely true, you need to first eliminate the improvable and ignorant phrase, “anyone who has studied” , and then finish with “some superficial contrasts are all that separate Christianity from other religions such as Zoroastrianism or Islam among many others.”
Let me guess, you watched Zeitgeist and now you think you're an authority on the subject. Well, not only is Zeitgeist filled with lies, they are outright bald faced lies, with a good measure of half-truths thrown in. Check your sources:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hgX6w4U-2o
(October 1, 2011 at 12:50 am)Cinjin Wrote: Not according to the Catholics pal … and by the way, they’re not exactly some obscure Christian sect – they’re kinda one of the big shots on the Christian scene. Works are extremely important and I know for a fact that even when a catholic dies they believe that their loved ones have to pray them into heaven. That ain’t grace alone pal. Let me guess – catholics are wrong right?? Which of the hundreds of Christian sects are wrong??? Let me guess – yours has it all figured out right?
Catholicism is a blending of paganism and Christianity. The pope, biblically, is a type of antichrist. So yes, they are wrong. I count them as Christians but many of them are probably not saved.
There is wide agreement in the Christian community on the fundementals, and one of those fundementals is salvation by grace. That is what the early church thought, and that is what the modern church thinks. Yes, there are sects(read: cults) out there, like Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, 7th Day adventalists and so forth who promote their own version of the gospel, but this doesn't speak to the core teachings of Jesus Christ which have never changed.
And if we're going to be debating Christianity, I'm going to use the bible to elaborate on some of my points. Just like if you asked me how to build a building I would show you the blueprints. It's really quite irrelevent to the discussion whether you believe the bible is true or not.
(October 1, 2011 at 12:50 am)Cinjin Wrote: And who makes you an authority worthy of making that statement??? It most certainly is a religious system and the fact that you claim it is not is simply ridiculous. It may very well be the BIGGEST religious system in the world.
Some people may treat it that way, but that isn't the way it works. When you believe in Christ, you receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. That means that everyone who has been redeemed by Jesus Christ has the Spirit of God within them. That is a direct and personal relationship with God. You don't have to do anything except believe in God for this to happen. The relationship comes first. It's an experiential truth. There is no other religion that has anything even approximating this.
(October 1, 2011 at 12:50 am)Cinjin Wrote: Completely improvable. Please point me to thousands who can vouch for this fact. Is there a list of names with sworn affidavits on a website somewhere? An impossible and ludicrous assertion followed by an even more ridiculous non-squitur: “If you know God exists, the logical thing is to get to know him.” Utterly illogical. First neither of us KNOWS without some measure of faith that God exists and even if we did, it does not follow suit that we should then “get to know him” or would even have the ability to do so. Some of us don’t like to rely on the scribblings of ancient half wits to find out what god was trying to say.
Go to youtube and type "christian testimonies"..you'll be there for many hours.
(October 1, 2011 at 12:50 am)Cinjin Wrote: Correct. Just like you believe in an angry desert god because you want to. OR WAIT … are you implying that you don’t have free will?!?!? Are you telling me that you didn’t necessarily want to and possibly still don’t??? But rather feel like there is no other choice?!?!?! Is that what you’re saying?!?!?
Think hard before you answer this one. Your question was loaded … obviously so are mine.
The question I would ask is if it necessary to use so many punctuation marks? Geez. No, I didn't say any of that. You said you settled on deism so you could "stop worrying about all this bull shit" and that it gave you "piece of mind"..as if you just settled on whatever made you feel good, with no regard to truth. Correct me.
(October 1, 2011 at 12:50 am)Cinjin Wrote: Jealousy is tantamount to envy and even if you won’t concede this truth, jealousy is still extremely human – not of god.
Exodus 22:5, Exodus 34:14, Deuteronomy 4:24, Deuteronomy 6:15, Deuteronomy 5:9
It isn't envy at all, you just don't understand the connotation, or the word being used. To be envious of something is to lust over something you don't have. That is sinful. There are two words for jealousy used in the bible, one for humans and one for God. The human word has connotations of a passionate, even sexual jealousy. The jealousy God is speaking about is different. and it is always in regard to idol worship. An example is, if you're a husband and your wife is flirting with another man, jealousy is the appropiate response; you are the only one she should be flirting with. This is the same reason why God said He is a jealous God, specifically in regard to idol worship.
(October 1, 2011 at 12:50 am)Cinjin Wrote: No, not that good, but in my opinion, they’re far better than your ridiculous notions of talking snakes, burning bushes, floating people, violent gods, zombie deities, and silly book that reads more like The Brothers Grimm than spiritual guidance.
Read the stories man … it’s painfully clear the Bible is fabrication straight from very human minds.
So your idea that the Universe was supernaturally created is plausible but my idea of miracles is not?
Now, I left a couple of things out, specifically questions of Gods judgement and Gods foreknowledge. My idea is that I would like to narrow the debate so we are only discussing a couple of topics at a time. These are two possible subjects, otherwise we can find something else to talk about.
I would also like to remark that you're extremely evasive about your beliefs. What I've heard so far is..I don't need God, I don't care about him, he doesnt care about me, i dont even think about him, i dont have any thoughts or feelings about him..etc. You've offered me no good reasons for belief in deism, or why you're not just a glorified atheist. You've offered me no insight on your position, theologically or otherwise. I am not here to debate a black hole. I want to know exactly what you believe and why, and I am going to ask you questions about those beliefs. If you're not prepared to defend deism then I don't know what we're doing here.
