Atheism, Deism & Christianity

[Cinjin]

Actually, blood cleansing, human sacrifice, baptism, virgin births, etc. etc. came about long before Christianity did. In order to make your statement even remotely true, you need to first eliminate the improvable and ignorant phrase, “anyone who has studied” , and then finish with “some superficial contrasts are all that separate Christianity from other religions such as Zoroastrianism or Islam among many others.”

Let me guess, you watched Zeitgeist and now you think you're an authority on the subject. Well, not only is Zeitgeist filled with lies, they are outright bald faced lies, with a good measure of half-truths thrown in. Check your sources:

Let me guess, you found out that Zeitgeist is mostly bull shit and you thought you could get an easy point by making it appear that I had ANYTHING to say about that silly movie. Don't put words in my mouth pal. I didn't say a goddamn word about Zeitgeist and therefore you have not refuted my point whatsoever.

Not according to the Catholics pal … and by the way, they’re not exactly some obscure Christian sect – they’re kinda one of the big shots on the Christian scene. Works are extremely important and I know for a fact that even when a catholic dies they believe that their loved ones have to pray them into heaven. That ain’t grace alone pal. Let me guess – catholics are wrong right?? Which of the hundreds of Christian sects are wrong??? Let me guess – yours has it all figured out right?

Catholicism is a blending of paganism and Christianity. The pope, biblically, is a type of antichrist. So yes, they are wrong. I count them as Christians but many of them are probably not saved.

There is wide agreement in the Christian community on the fundementals, and one of those fundementals is salvation by grace. That is what the early church thought, and that is what the modern church thinks. Yes, there are sects(read: cults) out there, like Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, 7th Day adventalists and so forth who promote their own version of the gospel, but this doesn't speak to the core teachings of Jesus Christ which have never changed.

What a shock. The Catholics, who number in the hundreds of millions, are wrong about their version of christianity and you of course are right. And then to say that "MANY are unsaved" is obviously just your own prejudice - much like a Muslim would tell you that you're a filthy infidel. There's no way you can know something like that. I think the Pope is no more right than you are, but your reasoning is ridiculous. All you have is a bunch of hocus pocus visions in your head, at least the catholic church has 1000+ years of doctrinal studies and the contradiction of the scriptures to back it up. I really just want to say, "Who the fuck are you?!" Also, you do realize that your high estimate of 2 Billion christians that jesus has currently on this planet goes way down when you discount nearly half of them as unsaved pagans.

And if we're going to be debating Christianity, I'm going to use the bible to elaborate on some of my points. Just like if you asked me how to build a building I would show you the blueprints. It's really quite irrelevent to the discussion whether you believe the bible is true or not.

Quote the Bible as much as you want - I sometimes quote it too. I will still mock you when you use it as proof of a claim that it itself makes!

And who makes you an authority worthy of making that statement??? It most certainly is a religious system and the fact that you claim it is not is simply ridiculous. It may very well be the BIGGEST religious system in the world.

Some people may treat it that way, but that isn't the way it works. When you believe in Christ, you receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. That means that everyone who has been redeemed by Jesus Christ has the Spirit of God within them. That is a direct and personal relationship with God. You don't have to do anything except believe in God for this to happen. The relationship comes first. It's an experiential truth. There is no other religion that has anything even approximating this.

That isn't the way it works??? What does this entire paragraph have to do with the fact that Christianity is a religion, it is a worldwide system, and it is JUST LIKE every other religion in that it can't even come CLOSE to agreeing on it's varied and idiotic doctrines?!?
And by the way, for you to just say the words, "no it isn't" is not enough to make your non-point. Christianity isn't some magical experience in your head. It's a well-documented SYSTEM with rules and regulations, dogmas, hierarchies, policies and procedures. Your personal relationship with the lunacy in your own mind does NOT in any way refute my point.

Completely improvable. Please point me to thousands who can vouch for this fact. Is there a list of names with sworn affidavits on a website somewhere? An impossible and ludicrous assertion followed by an even more ridiculous non-sequitur: “If you know God exists, the logical thing is to get to know him.” Utterly illogical. First neither of us KNOWS without some measure of faith that God exists and even if we did, it does not follow suit that we should then “get to know him” or would even have the ability to do so. Some of us don’t like to rely on the scribblings of ancient half wits to find out what god was trying to say.

Go to youtube and type "christian testimonies"..you'll be there for many hours.

LOL. Come on Lucent. Please. A billion+ christians out there, and you think that a couple hundred people world wide, the majority of which are either lying or delusional, bolsters your point?? That is laughable man.

Correct. Just like you believe in an angry desert god because you want to. OR WAIT … are you implying that you don’t have free will?!?!? Are you telling me that you didn’t necessarily want to and possibly still don’t??? But rather feel like there is no other choice?!?!?! Is that what you’re saying?!?!?

Think hard before you answer this one. Your question was loaded … obviously so are mine.

The question I would ask is if it necessary to use so many punctuation marks? Geez. No, I didn't say any of that. You said you settled on deism so you could "stop worrying about all this bull shit" and that it gave you "piece of mind"..as if you just settled on whatever made you feel good, with no regard to truth. Correct me.

It is you who settled on what made you feel good, with no regard to truth. You "saw visions" and found a book that backed you up. If you had seen slightly different visions, you would be worshiping Allah and reading the Quran right now, because THAT would be the book that backed you up. You think, that because your Bible says it's truth that it is? You are wrong and you are wrong simply because I say so. I'm not going to be told that my choice is somehow less valid because some guy who sees visions dancing in his silly little brain thinks that I'm wrong.

Your implication is that I chose this because it has some great truth to it. I chose to label myself with deistic views because they DON'T claim any of that "truth" that you so desperately cling to. Yes, deism suits me, but primarily BECAUSE it does not offer me a phoney god who's far more human than deity.

Jealousy is tantamount to envy and even if you won’t concede this truth, jealousy is still extremely human – not of god.
Exodus 22:5, Exodus 34:14, Deuteronomy 4:24, Deuteronomy 6:15, Deuteronomy 5:9

It isn't envy at all, you just don't understand the connotation, or the word being used. To be envious of something is to lust over something you don't have. That is sinful. There are two words for jealousy used in the bible, one for humans and one for God. The human word has connotations of a passionate, even sexual jealousy. The jealousy God is speaking about is different. and it is always in regard to idol worship. An example is, if you're a husband and your wife is flirting with another man, jealousy is the appropiate response; you are the only one she should be flirting with. This is the same reason why God said He is a jealous God, specifically in regard to idol worship.

Christian apologetics.

No, not that good, but in my opinion, they’re far better than your ridiculous notions of talking snakes, burning bushes, floating people, violent gods, zombie deities, and silly book that reads more like The Brothers Grimm than spiritual guidance.

Read the stories man … it’s painfully clear the Bible is fabrication straight from very human minds.

So your idea that the Universe was supernaturally created is plausible but my idea of miracles is not?

First of all, you believe that the Universe was supernaturally created in 6 fucking days so your point here means ABSOLUTELY nothing, and my whole point is not the existence of God - it's the idiocy of the Bible, it's god and the fact that it should be painfully obvious to a grade schooler that it is a man made concoction.

Now, I left a couple of things out, specifically questions of Gods judgement and Gods foreknowledge. My idea is that I would like to narrow the debate so we are only discussing a couple of topics at a time. These are two possible subjects, otherwise we can find something else to talk about.

I would also like to remark that you're extremely evasive about your beliefs. What I've heard so far is..I don't need God, I don't care about him, he doesnt care about me, i dont even think about him, i dont have any thoughts or feelings about him..etc. You've offered me no good reasons for belief in deism, or why you're not just a glorified atheist. You've offered me no insight on your position, theologically or otherwise. I am not here to debate a black hole. I want to know exactly what you believe and why, and I am going to ask you questions about those beliefs. If you're not prepared to defend deism then I don't know what we're doing here.

I just can't seem to get it through your head can I ........I'll try again ........ I DON'T HAVE A RELIGION! I don't worship anyone, therefore the reasons I have offered you for my deistic views have to be adequate. I can't tell you something that does not exist. I told you why I'm a deist. The religions of the world are dishonest and make no sense because they clearly all come from a the hand of a human. I'm not being evasive, there's just nothing more to tell you, and by the way, comparing me to an atheist is a compliment. I didn't subscribe to Deism one day thinking, this sure gives me that warm fuzzy feeling that I've been looking for. God holding my hand, answering my silly prayers and leading me through life so that when I die I can feel all happy about it. ----- That's you, not me. I have no silly book of lies for evidence. Which in the end really says a lot about you and the rest of the sheep doesn't it. You claim to have all this faith, but in the end, you're always looking for evidence for other people's beliefs.

Guess who has the most faith out of the two of us?

You've got old books, and writings, a lot of myths, and heresay, visions and dreams, pastors and ministers and world wide system backing you up.

I've got nothing but a spec of faith.


Not only do you damn little faith, you have piles of "evidence" because you need it. You require it. It is an absolute must that your neat little belief system make sense and keep you feeling warm and fuzzy so you can face your own mortality. Where would you be if you were born before Christ showed up on the planet. You'd be a scared little boy, afraid of the dark. No evidence, no doctrines, no world wide system. You'd be fucked.

I only have a drop of faith and yet it clearly outweighs yours 1000x over.