RE: Evidence for a god. Do you have any ?
December 26, 2018 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: December 26, 2018 at 5:40 pm by T0 Th3 M4X.)
(December 26, 2018 at 4:53 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:(December 26, 2018 at 2:54 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Interesting topic and question. Atheists are proof that "God" or "gods" exist. At the very least, the subject must exist conceptually because atheists talk and contemplate about "God" and "gods" so much.
It is my understanding, that theists are not talking about gods existing 'conceptually'. They believe gods actually exist, in reality.
The reason why some atheists talk about god so much, is because of believers. People's beliefs do not live in a vacuum, they inform one's actions. And many theist's beliefs have real world negative consequences.
If people's beliefs in unicorns had as many negative consequences as god beliefs, I would be speaking out about the irrational unicorn beliefs, too.
Quote:If you mean "exist naturally" then the category doesn't apply since the subject is said to be "supernatural."
Here's the problem. If the god one believes in, is able to affect the natural world; perform miracles, answer prayers, heal the sick, create life, etc, etc, then these actions would leave evidence in the natural world. For example, not a single religion or sect has ever shown that prayer works at better than chance.
If the god one believes in is a deist type god, then said god would not leave any evidence.
Quote:here are some exceptions though where the "natural" is assumed to be a "god", so at the very last it would be considered conceptual and subjective. If you're asking for evidence supernaturally, then it would make more sense to explain what would be assumed as evidence since the subject would supersede the natural world.
It might not be possible to explain what evidence I would expect from a god, but said god sure would know.
But it is not my place to describe what sort of evidence I would expect from a god. As soon as an atheist does that, they get accused of building a strawman.
It is up to those claiming gods exist, to support their claim with whatever they seem to think is evidence.
I can tell you the criteria for the evidence I would accept, but not specific evidence. Evidence that would convince me, would be: demonstrable, repeatable, falsifiable, and verifiable. It would also be supported by valid and sound logic. It is not my fault, that theists fail to meet this criteria.
A. All actions have consequence. It's not isolated to only religions, worldviews, and ideologies. The result isn't always regarded as positive or negative. If there is a direct correlation, then I would assert it would need to be demonstrated in regard to negative consequences. Maybe in the context of radicalism, then I (subjectively) think it would be a fair assertion, but again that isn't specific to a certain belief. It's someone taking something and extending it beyond what it needs to be.
B. You're making an absolute statement about something that is subjective. I think the logical response from me would be, "How do you qualify that?" If you are suggesting it needs to be demonstrated on a broad scale, then by what means should something be made evident? Again, we're talking about something supernatural, so by what it is defined as, it would supersede dependence on anything natural. To qualify the absolute you've provided, "no religion has shown that prayer works at better than chance", you would need to validate it, and I dunno that there would be any logical way to do that. If there is, I would love to hear it, respectfully.
C. If you suggest a God or gods does not exist, how can you logically attribute qualities or function to the subject? If you don't believe something exists, then there's nothing more to determine.
Example: There are no real Wuzzles in the universe. Okay, so if there are no Wuzzles, I can't assert they are red, blue, intelligent, ignorant, or anything else. If they only exist conceptually, then they have no qualities to assert.
D. Your statement about what you would consider evidence is subjective because, again, we are talking about something assumed to be supernatural. If it supersedes the natural, then we can't invalidate it based on the natural, because it's not dependent on such.
(December 26, 2018 at 4:58 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.
(December 26, 2018 at 4:00 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote: Heck ya! I shall be henceforth known as "Wonder Dash" or maybe "Skittle Pants Lightfoot" as to display my fandom.
Actually I'm not all that into it, but no problem with bronies. I might be into it more if I had more time for it. But then again, the same could be said true of a million other things.
I feel I must ask for a clarification there T0 th3 M4X.
What do you mean "Unicorns do exist"?
A unicorn is a creature with one horn. That's actually what "uni-corn" means. One-Horn.