(January 11, 2019 at 9:10 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:(January 11, 2019 at 8:05 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Knowledge isn't required. Stars are formed all the time without any knowledge input from anyone. All that is required is the action of the physical laws. As for 'power', that term is rather ambiguous in this context, but again, the physical laws are what mediate the formation of things.
But, and this is crucial, the known physical laws *do* allow for a 'universe from nothing', in part because the the total energy balance of the universe is zero (the gravitational energy is negative and exactly balances the energy from other sources).
It's not new matter, so N/A. So far no physical laws that allow a universe from nothing. Just conjecture.
Um as I said in another thread about "something vs nothing" neither require a super cognition.
"Infinite regress" destroys the logic of inserting a super cognition as a starting point.
It does not matter if this universe came out of nothing, or was a result of the death of a prior universe. Scientists have predicted in the future that all the energy in the universe we live in now will run out.
You are insisting on a "who" being the starting point, instead of considering that the cycle of on and off are natural not a factory product.
Infinity is a possibility, as much as coming out of nothing is. But, even with infinity, it does not have to be a cognition doing it. Just like there is no Frosty The Snowman God causing winter, leading to a Peter Cotton Tail God caused spring, or Jalapeno Speedy Gonzales God causing summer, leading to a Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown God causing fall.
The evidence to "all this" is looking like a wave function, which leads to particles, then atoms then structures that lead to both non living objects and life itself. None of what science is saying now, is pointing to Allah or Yahweh, or Vishnu or Buddha, or Jesus anymore than observations of lightening prove the existence of Thor.
Personally I lean to infinity. But not in a super cognition causing it. I see the "forever" as being a natural cycle of the death of some prior universe becoming fuel for the one we live in now, which will eventually suffer from "heat death", and like dead tree, rot and become fuel leading to another big bang leading to a future universe that comes out of the death of the one we are in.
Much like a light switch can start of in the "off" position, turn on for a while, run out of fuel, go back to off, and spark the on position again because of the rotted fuel from the on position.
Our species cognition is not a product of a factory. It is a result of evolution. We are finite as a species, and just like we were not around 4 billion years ago, we will not be around 10 billion years from now. We are simply a temporary blip in this current universe.
