[split] PSA: Hate Speech (discussion of video etc)

[pocaracas]

If you disapprove of it, then say so loudly.

I thought I was.  By saying the young men should be brought up on charges.  But I get it:  It isn't enough for me to disapprove of their behavior - I have to do so in a manner and at a volume acceptable to you.  I'll try and do better.

There you go. All caps sometimes works.

As it is, it seems like you're saying that the justice system has something to do about the violent ones, but society is mostly saying "you did good in beating up that racist".

I'm hardly accountable for what society says.  While beating up racists is not always a bad thing, it was in this instance.

Que???
You are part of society. Yes, you are not the sole responsible for what society says, but you are a part of it. Be the part that aims at what you want, instead of the part that passively accepts it as it is.

And when is beating up someone not a bad thing?
As self defense? That's just because the other person just initiated the violence.

If we have video of it happening, then I imagine people are rising up violently over this particular word quite frequently. They're being led to believe by the society around them that it's an acceptable and even expected reaction and that not doing so is wrong or a show of weakness. Is this the society you want to live in?

I suspect you're putting too much emphasis on the likelihood of their actions being reasoned out. What happened was a visceral reaction, not a rational one.

True, it was visceral.
How many wife beaters or rapists have done so out of a visceral reaction?

No, I do not think it's a stupid position to take.
Call me an idealist, but I do believe that mankind can live in peace.
"Violence is ok" is a rather stupid position to take, don't you think?

If I had said 'violence is always ok', I'd agree with you.  But to claim violence is never ok doesn't hold up.  Would you commit a violent act to save someone else from injury or death?  There was a news story a few weeks ago about a woman on a train being repeated kicked by a man.  The other passengers leapt into action - they all got their phones out.

So I would probably agree with the statement, 'Violence is sometimes OK.'

sigh...
Violence as a means to quell a violent act is one thing.
We're talking here about initiating that violence. It is never ok to initiate violence. There... sorry for the initial imprecision.

If you are to change society, that is to change all bullies, ignoring them is one of the best ways to silence them forever.

Then again, it might just encourage them.  If they think they can use the word with impunity (which is what you're suggesting), might that not lead them to stronger language and stronger actions?

Stronger Language? What does that mean? more harsh words, none of them, it seems, are remotely as harsh as the n word? Wow, that must be something very traumatic to hear. A trauma comparable to a broken rib, at least, huh?!

Stronger actions? Then the blame is on the violence initiator.

Impunity... your wording denotes that you believe the use of such a word deserves some punishment.
Do you really believe that anyone is going to use a word that no one cares about? As long as society tells people that it's ok to have that visceral reaction, they will have it. As long as society tells people that the use of a word deserves to be punished, they will punish it. As long as society tells people that the word carries this and that baggage, people will use it and other people will feel attacked by it.

If you want a word to lose its baggage, ignore it.
If you want it to retain that baggage, people will keep having these visceral reactions... it's clearly been working out well, huh?

Keep giving them the spotlight, keep reacting to their insults, keep applauding those who react to those insults, and you'll keep reinforcing the bully attitude.

So...empower that attitude?

Ignoring idiots when they say stupid shit is hardly empowering them.

Take the power away from the word, by ignoring it, and the bullies will stop using it.... maybe they'll come up with other insults or other bullying tactics - but those are to be dealt with when they come.

Brilliant!  Bring back lynching and we'll worry about it when it happens.

Back to initiating violence.
Are you just wanting to go to absurd scenarios for the fun of it, or are you seriously interested in discussing the matter?

I'll reiterate, telling people "don't use this word or suffer the consequences" is victim blaming and far from the best way to deal with the situation.

But I'm not telling anyone that.  I'm telling them, 'If you use this word, you can expect consequences, because people have visceral reactions to hate speech.'  But I'm also telling people who react violently, 'If you do, you deserved to be charged with assault and you may go to jail for your trouble.'

I would like nothing better to live in a violence-free world, where everyone is rational, whether there are no bullies, and hate speech is a shameful reminder of our forgotten past. 

And why are people having those visceral reactions to it?
Why are youngsters on that video so full of hate that they need to act violently? What is society telling them?
In this case in particular, it seems that they were the origin of the disrespect, as it seems they nearly ran over a pedestrian with a car. The pedestrian complained and, pissed at them, said the word that triggered them. How does one word trigger people like that?

Then again, I'd also like to live in a world where unicorns fart rainbows and puke leprechaun gold.  But until that happens, I'll deal with the world as it is.

Deal with the world as it is and try to make it better, according to your view, of what better can be.
Maybe the unicorns and leprechauns area not possible, but getting people to stop reacting violently at the sound of a word might be possible. And you do that by talking to people and spreading, for example, the notion that violence is always worse than words and is never an acceptable reaction to hearing a word, any word, regardless of history, insulting scope or emotional charge.
Is it too much to ask for improvement?