Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 14, 2024, 2:16 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Moral Oughts
RE: Moral Oughts
(August 30, 2019 at 12:24 am)Objectivist Wrote: Yes, judgment is a duty, but only if you have made the choice to live.  It's a self-imposed duty.  Nature doesn't force you to judge or to live, it's a choice.

Good and Bad seem to be like color. To recognize that stealing is bad, is more like recognizing that stealing is yellow, than deciding what color I should color stealing. I see yellow not because reality forces me to see yellow, rather because it is yellow. If I wanted to close my eyes and refuse to see that x is yellow, I could.

One of the properties of this moral color (good) is that it carried with it some compelling quality of I ought to do it, and the color of badness as something I ought not do. If good is like light, then it’s a direction I ought to move towards, and badness is like darkness, it’s a directions I should move away from.

Now I don’t know about you, but I grew up poor, and in bad part of town, and done a lot of things that where bad, stolen things and stuff.

Even in the act of stealing, I was fully aware that what I was doing is wrong, and that i ought not do it, as liking a breaking of an obligation.

I recognized that as a truth, a fundamental truth, and not as like societies, my family, community, friends, would disprove of my actions, or be disappointed by them. Or some rule that I made for myself

It also doesn’t seem to be the case that this was something I was indoctrinated into believing. If I tried to say to myself this is just some indoctrinated false belief, or that it’s a thing of my own creation, I would just be lying to myself, like trying to convince myself the earth is flat.

I don’t know about your insistence on a choice to live, but this perception wouldn’t have changed if I made the choice to die or commit suicide instead, anymore so that I’d believe that 1+1=5, in welcoming death.

Quote:"When I judge something my friend did as bad, I'm saying it's something he ought not to have done." *if he wants to live and have a good life*

And if he said I wanted to have a bad life, we’d tell him that ain’t right, you ought to want a good life.

Wittgenstein:

Quote:“ But this is not how Ethics uses them.

Supposing that I could play tennis and one of you saw me playing and said "Well, you play pretty badly" and suppose I answered "I know, I'm playing badly but I don't want to play any better," all the other man could say would be "Ah then that's all right."

But suppose I had told one of you a preposterous lie and he came up to me and said "You're behaving like a beast" and then I were to say "I know I behave badly, but then I don't want to behave any better," could he then say "Ah, then that's all right"?

Certainly not; he would say "Well, you ought to want to behave better."
Here you have an absolute judgment of value, whereas the first instance was one of a relative judgment.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 11:43 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 1, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 11:49 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 11:52 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 11:56 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 12:02 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by onlinebiker - August 1, 2019 at 12:02 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 12:04 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by onlinebiker - August 1, 2019 at 12:07 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 12:08 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 12:06 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 12:07 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 12:14 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 12:57 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 1:26 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 6:29 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 7:02 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 7:21 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 7:31 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 7:37 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 7:45 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 3, 2019 at 2:03 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 3, 2019 at 5:43 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 3, 2019 at 6:33 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 3, 2019 at 6:48 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 3, 2019 at 7:06 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 3, 2019 at 7:48 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Belacqua - August 3, 2019 at 7:50 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 3, 2019 at 8:17 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 3, 2019 at 9:45 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 12:08 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 12:11 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 12:30 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 12:18 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 12:36 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 12:56 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 1:28 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by downbeatplumb - August 1, 2019 at 2:08 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 2:08 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 7:27 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 7:33 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 7:53 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 7:48 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 8:05 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 8:11 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 8:19 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 8:14 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 8:52 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 8:21 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 8:56 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 9:15 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 9:19 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 9:24 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 9:32 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 10:16 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 10:18 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 10:21 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 10:25 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 10:34 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 10:38 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 10:39 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 10:47 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Mister Agenda - August 3, 2019 at 9:53 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by DLJ - August 3, 2019 at 10:01 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 3, 2019 at 11:36 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Abaddon_ire - August 3, 2019 at 7:18 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 3, 2019 at 9:51 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2019 at 9:55 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Abaddon_ire - August 8, 2019 at 6:17 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Grandizer - August 3, 2019 at 1:31 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Mister Agenda - August 3, 2019 at 10:12 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2019 at 12:15 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 7, 2019 at 11:36 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2019 at 1:44 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by EgoDeath - August 3, 2019 at 1:48 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2019 at 2:07 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by EgoDeath - August 3, 2019 at 6:32 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by EgoDeath - August 3, 2019 at 2:10 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2019 at 7:21 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by DLJ - August 4, 2019 at 2:13 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2019 at 9:47 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 4, 2019 at 6:46 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2019 at 8:03 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 4, 2019 at 10:22 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2019 at 10:24 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 4, 2019 at 10:32 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2019 at 10:33 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2019 at 11:36 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2019 at 11:38 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 8, 2019 at 6:26 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Objectivist - August 29, 2019 at 5:59 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 29, 2019 at 6:40 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Objectivist - August 30, 2019 at 12:24 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 30, 2019 at 4:24 am
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 29, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by John 6IX Breezy - August 29, 2019 at 7:40 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 29, 2019 at 8:20 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 29, 2019 at 7:57 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by John 6IX Breezy - August 29, 2019 at 8:06 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 29, 2019 at 8:09 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by John 6IX Breezy - August 29, 2019 at 9:43 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 29, 2019 at 8:22 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 29, 2019 at 8:27 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 29, 2019 at 8:28 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 29, 2019 at 8:32 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 29, 2019 at 8:33 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by Acrobat - August 29, 2019 at 8:37 pm
RE: Moral Oughts - by The Grand Nudger - August 29, 2019 at 8:54 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Maximizing Moral Virtue h311inac311 191 20254 December 17, 2022 at 10:36 pm
Last Post: Objectivist
  As a nonreligious person, where do you get your moral guidance? Gentle_Idiot 79 9344 November 26, 2022 at 10:27 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Moral justification for the execution of criminals of war? Macoleco 184 13575 August 19, 2022 at 7:03 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  On theism, why do humans have moral duties even if there are objective moral values? Pnerd 37 4619 May 24, 2022 at 11:49 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Can we trust our Moral Intuitions? vulcanlogician 72 7283 November 7, 2021 at 1:25 pm
Last Post: Alan V
  Any Moral Relativists in the House? vulcanlogician 72 7320 June 21, 2021 at 9:09 am
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  [Serious] Moral Obligations toward Possible Worlds Neo-Scholastic 93 8283 May 23, 2021 at 1:43 am
Last Post: Anomalocaris
  A Moral Reality Acrobat 29 4394 September 12, 2019 at 8:09 pm
Last Post: brewer
  In Defense of a Non-Natural Moral Order Acrobat 84 9696 August 30, 2019 at 3:02 pm
Last Post: LastPoet
  Is Moral Nihilism a Morality? vulcanlogician 140 15491 July 17, 2019 at 11:50 am
Last Post: DLJ



Users browsing this thread: 9 Guest(s)