RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
December 20, 2019 at 11:35 am
(This post was last modified: December 20, 2019 at 11:41 am by WinterHold.)
(December 19, 2019 at 8:39 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:(December 19, 2019 at 1:19 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The problem is that the countries accusing Turkey of the genocide did commit massive genocides themselves. Which created a tidal-lock; AKA a "Tu quoque argument".
In slang, one would say: "You butchered a whole race of native Americans then threw an atomic bomb on Japan then butchered thousands in Vietnam then spread your crimes to Iraq..and after that you dare to accuse me with genocide?".
Afterwards, Turkey gave Syrian civilians haven when Americans and the west and Russia gave them gangs, accompanied by unlimited support to Assad.
The only "messed up" thing here is the flaming of sectarian wars in the Middle East to gain prophet, supporting mass genocides in the region too.
Dude, your argument itself is a tu quoque. Yes, many of the people calling Turkey out for the Armenian Genocide come from nations that have committed genocide (although I can't find any sign of Armenians themselves committing genocide, and they're the ones most vocal about it), but the difference there is that, many of those nations, you can actually talk about the bad shit their own nations have done without fear of prosecution. And some nations, like Germany, have gone above and beyond in their attempt to try and make it right (things like taking responsibility for their own fuckups on a national level [personal levels are another story, I freely admit], giving reparations to Israel, and clamping down on any attempt to revive the Nazi ideology.)
Quote:AtlasS33 said:
The problem is that the countries accusing Turkey of the genocide did commit massive genocides themselves. Which created a tidal-lock; AKA a "Tu quoque argument".
My argument is a mere description of the moral tidal-lock resulting from the Tu quoque argument used against Turkey.
A tu quoque is -in other words-: "justifying one's crimes by pointing to the other side's crimes".
Yes it is a tu quoque tidal-lock. The more power and independence Turkey has, the more it will throw the genocides of the west in its face.
Isn't the foes of Turkey commit tu quoque themselves? I mean western superpowers are justifying their massacres against the native Americans by pointing at China, Turkey and other countries.
(December 20, 2019 at 2:25 am)Deesse23 Wrote: I see Atlass still does not understand the tu quoque fallacy.
Countries who have commited genocide on the american continent accusing turkey of the Armenian genocide is no tu quoque fallcy.
Turkey accusing other countries of genocide in Vietnam etc. in order to excuse/deflect its own armenian genocide, that is a tu quoque fallacy.
Its perfectly ok to accuse someone of stuff you committed yourself, given the fact that you acknowledge that your own doings were wrong. The tu quoque fallacy is trying to avoid this.
There is no "grid-lock", just one side being hypocritical.
Many western powers -especially America- are
Quote:accusing other countries of genocide in Armenia etc. in order to excuse/deflect its own native American genocide, that is a tu quoque fallacy.
That is the tidal-lock. It can go on forever, back and forth.
