The Struggle to do Good

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, there you go.  You don't believe in objective moral values at all.

You asked me if God had different moral values, then would He have different moral values. The answer is yes. And, no, that doesn't mean I don't believe in objective moral values and duties or that they don't exist.

You're a moral subjectivist.  Different gods, different morals.

That doesn't follow at all.

The notion that morality changes when the subject changes is the definition of moral subjectivism.  An objectivist could only say that morality would be the same no matter what a god was or did or wanted.  

Objectivists refer to some fact of the act in question, not some fact about a hypothetical subject.  

Why, and if a god wanted you to murder

It's not murder if the killing is justified. If God truly told me to kill somebody, then I'd assume there was a good reason.

Then there's nothing bad about murder.  The good or bad making property is whether a subject has told you to do so, or refrain from doing so.  

Are you sure you know what the term epistemological framework means?

Are you sure you're not a homeless crackhead who is accessing this forum through a public library?

Lemme check. 

Yep, I'm sure.

A conscience is, at best, a folk description of the mechanism

Yeah, uh, wrong.

So, conscience is another way of saying moral intuition. It's a mechanism used for accessing objective moral values and duties.

Which, again, is not an epistemological framework...at least not to moral objectivism.  Realism, for example, is the epistemological framework of moral objectivism...not the feels you get from your conscience.

I want you to take a breath here and consider something. Rather than do battle with me over a word - a battle that you are certain to lose by definition...if the things you're expressing are an accurate description of your beliefs...maybe just own them? If that's what you really believe to be the case with morality, and if it just so happens that the accurate term for this is moral subjectivism...and even though you don't like that term for whatever reason, it would still remain a fact that it is what you believe.

You are a moral subjectivist who has privileged what you believe to be a gods moral opinions. I am a moral realist who thinks that moral statements purport to report facts, and insomuch as they get those facts right, are true. When you exclaim that murder is bad, you are referring to some alleged fact(s) of your gods opinion on the matter. When I say the same, I am referring to some alleged fact(s) of murder.