'Seeking' God

[Captain Scarlet]

The Universe clearly has the appearance of design. The whole theory of evolution is based upon the idea that nature, in an undirected process, designed all the life we see today. The DNA is a code which can be seen as a plan, or blueprint for a creature. You can't debunk design; the Universe was either designed by an intelligent cause or it designed itself. The question is what is the better explanation.

Scary. Later you accuse me of arguing from ignorance and yet your 'evidence' is that "well of course the universe exhbits design, oh and DNA". Do you not see the irony? Please go read some science books rather than polluting the world with arguments such as these and perhaps just ask yourself one question: what would an undesigned universe look like to me?. You claim design and order is 'obvious' in a gigantic argument from ignorance, yet you will not be able to describe a universe where humans can observe a dis-ordered universe. Also answer which elements of the universe that you observe have order which possibly cannot come from natural events.

The idea that the Universe just created and designed itself out of nothing is a metaphysical idea, and one which violates the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. There is no explanation for origins, either cosmic or life origins. There is no naturalistic process which can account for DNA. These aren't gaps, they're grand canyons. You can't just waltz in and say you've replaced God when you have failed to answer *all* of the fundemental questions. "We're working on it" is not an answer.

Scientifically illiterate argument I'm afraid. There are natural explanations for origins of the universe try the hartle hawking conjecture and the wave function of the universe. Try abiogenesis for DNA. And you gave away your thinking by using the word gaps and filling it with a god of such gaps. Mankind will never be able to answer all fundamental questions we can only ever get close to it. The universe is expanding faster than the ability of light to travel. This fact in and of itself poses major problems for supernaturalism. You would have to eliminate all natural possibilities for phenomona you want to attribute to a god, but because mankind will never be omniscient your argumenst will never go through.

He is the logos and everything in this Universe was created by Him and through Him. You cannot know anything true without the logos. This was showing you why you think God is hidden, because without Him you are blind to truth.

Righto. More Hans Christian Anderson fairy tales for you. Ring any bells?:

"So the honest old minister went to the room where the two swindlers sat working away at their empty looms.

"Heaven help me," he thought as his eyes flew wide open, "I can't see anything at all". But he did not say so.

Both the swindlers begged him to be so kind as to come near to approve the excellent pattern, the beautiful colors. They pointed to the empty looms, and the poor old minister stared as hard as he dared. He couldn't see anything, because there was nothing to see..."

Pure supposition and conjecture. You're arguing from ignorance here. You've admitted you have never looked and so what exactly could you possibly know about the subject? This is something that amazes me about atheists who claim to have dominion on logic. You count all of the ways that Christ cannot be found against His existence, and never try the one way He can be found because you say there is no evidence. There is no way to get that evidence except from Christ directly, end of story. Personally, I think there are plenty of good reasons to believe in Jesus just from the evidence we do have, but as far as direct evidence of Gods existence, only God can give that to you. What you've failed to do is simply ask God for the truth. If you were to get on your knees and pray to Jesus "Jesus, if you're God, I want to know. Please show me the truth", He would reveal it to you.

Almost jawdropping irony to claim that I'm arguing from ignorance. I can back my beliefs up with a consistent worldview and evidence. Whereas you are arguing that that universe is designed, becuase you say it is and it has to be supernatural, because you say it is and you can't possibly think of a reason how nature can account for these so called phenomona. Go and think about it.

So if I drop to my knees and ask Jesus for forgiveness or whatever and he doesn't respond, the I either: 1) wont have tried hard enough or 2) honestly enough or 3) both or 4) its good becuase I'll be suffering like Christ (hope I've not missed any xtian response I could get back). But if I do get a response then I was doing it hard and honestly enough and you were right all along. Just a sneeking suspicion that you're not leaving any option that you might just be wrong are you? The other missing option is that there isn't anyone there. Have you considered that? Just how credulous do you think I am to accept an invitation as you are offering? Mother Theresa who was very motivated to believe never once got a response, wonder what she really thought?