The Watchmaker: my fav argument

[The Grand Nudger]

Are there things within the universe that are NOT designed? Most people would say that there are. So, by what crietia do we distinguish between those things that are not designed and those that are?

Tired of waiting for the nutbars to give a credible answer to anything.  It's never going to happen - that's not why they're here.

We can use the same criteria anyone else would.  A christian, can use the same criteria anyone else would.  It's not actually an article of christian belief that every single thing in everything was designed to some specific purpose.  God created it, sure, but I create alot of shit on accident and don't much care about the specifics everytime I intentionally build some other thing.
The universe doesn't look designed..because it isn't.  God threw seeds at the void.  I do that too.  God doesn;t need to design anything in the first place, all things are as a god can make them and there's no intermediary step like a design required to accomplish it.  Maybe, even using the same criteria for design, and even though everything doesn't look designed - maybe some things are.  Maybe we are. Gods plan - for us..is the only non-negotiable item of christian theology. Magic book doesn't say he died for the martians that don't exist but that christians will absolutely pretend to believe in so that they might claim that they aren't arguing for christ - just some intelligence, just some design.



Now, hey, I agree with you that we don't look designed by any straightforward explanation of design - but if other people see the same stuff in a shared reality and think we do...that much, at least, is a genuine disagreement. John, otoh, has been trolling the boards for page upon endless page. He sees design nowhere - which is why he can give no example of design. I think he might be going for the ring..but the bar is high. It takes a few hundred pages of obvious bullshit to even get in the running.