I'm dubious on the debate about whether a religion actually promotes patriarchal ideals and "women as property/second class citizens" based only on whether the members say it does or not.
When I was a true believing Mormon, I would have zealously defended the "just different roles NOT slaves" idea. I was convinced back then that women held a place of honor and respect in the church and that they had power that was different from a man's but just as important. I would have come in here spouting off the blessings and power of childbirth, the special gift of motherhood, once upon a time.
In actuality...
• In Mormonism, they believe that after this life and the judgement and yadda yadda, those who are worthy in the Celestial kingdom get to basically do this whole thing again except each individual gets to play the role of God for their own planet, raising up spirit children on that planet. So, exactly like this, except we all get to be Gods of our own planet with our own progeny to torment an give rules to. Women do not get to make their own planet or rule over that planet as a God. Women get the "blessing" to join a worthy male God in his harem of wives. Those spirit children gotta come from somewhere with all the hundreds of billions of people who have ever lived and will ever live. They come from good ole fashioned baby making with god parents. If you are a worthy woman here on earth and you die unmarried/your husband is not worthy, you get to join the harem of a worthy man in the eternities. And just like here, how Mormons never talk about and never teach the concept of heavenly Mother, hen you become a God Mother of your husband's planet, your children will never talk about you, they will be shushed to never ask about, think about, or pray to you. You get no credit, no acknowledgment for your role in creating these new humans and you get no say in raising them, in rules, in judgement, anythin. The reward for Mormon women in the eternities is to become a god making factory, a brood mare, one of several, in a long and endless process.
• In the temple, when a woman is sealed to her husband for time and eternity, she is directly promising to obey the authority of her husband. And her husband makes promises to God. She doesn't get to make promises to God. Only to her husband, whom she must obey. In practice, it might look like a regular marriage with the husband cooking and doing dishes and the wife with a job. But these covenants n the temple are like signing a heavenly contract and the "documentation" in the eternal book says the husband talks to God directly as a representative for the family unit and the wife follows his lead.
• In church, women have their own organization called the Relief Society with a president and counsellors appointed to her. She has no actual authority in running the local church. She runs the sunday school classes for the women and runs activities during the week. She doesn't collect tithing, she doesn't gives blessings, she doesn't meet privately with her flock to hear their sins and help them through repentance. All o that is still passed upwards to the bishop or stake president of the local ward. And every decision she makes must be approved and overseen by the bishop. If she has an activity in the middle of the week with the women using the church to make crafts or do something for charity, a priesthood holder, usually the bishop or one of his counselors, has to be present. It's not a church sanctioined activity without a worthy priesthood representative (and only men have the power of the priesthood). There are no women and never have been in any of the highest positions of authority in the church. The highest a woman can get is the Relief Society President for the whole church. She gets to have some input in the yearly themes for Relief Society and helps organize the lessons all the lower level RS presidents at the local levels get to teach to their classes. It all needs final approval from the male authority in the church before it ever gets printed and handed out to the rest of the church.
• If you are a single mother in Mormonism, a widow, or your husband is not worthy/absent for a temporary time, you cannot give blessings to your children when they are sick. You do not have the authority or power to pray over your sick child and ask for God to make them well. Not in the official sense. You need to call the local ward and they will send over a worthy priesthood holder to do it for you. Men get the priesthood starting at 12 years old. If you are a mother with a 12 year old son, he has more power through God than you do and could perform healing miracles on your children.
I could go on but you get the point. As a Mormon, I would have defended women as equal yet different with just as much power as men. Yet the actual doctrines and practice of gospel speaks of subservience, less authority, less power, and less privilege. So, a religious person can say all they like "women aren't second class! Women just have different roles!" but it's just more of the same cognitive dissonance where your standards of "equality" do not match up with the rest of reality.
When I was a true believing Mormon, I would have zealously defended the "just different roles NOT slaves" idea. I was convinced back then that women held a place of honor and respect in the church and that they had power that was different from a man's but just as important. I would have come in here spouting off the blessings and power of childbirth, the special gift of motherhood, once upon a time.
In actuality...
• In Mormonism, they believe that after this life and the judgement and yadda yadda, those who are worthy in the Celestial kingdom get to basically do this whole thing again except each individual gets to play the role of God for their own planet, raising up spirit children on that planet. So, exactly like this, except we all get to be Gods of our own planet with our own progeny to torment an give rules to. Women do not get to make their own planet or rule over that planet as a God. Women get the "blessing" to join a worthy male God in his harem of wives. Those spirit children gotta come from somewhere with all the hundreds of billions of people who have ever lived and will ever live. They come from good ole fashioned baby making with god parents. If you are a worthy woman here on earth and you die unmarried/your husband is not worthy, you get to join the harem of a worthy man in the eternities. And just like here, how Mormons never talk about and never teach the concept of heavenly Mother, hen you become a God Mother of your husband's planet, your children will never talk about you, they will be shushed to never ask about, think about, or pray to you. You get no credit, no acknowledgment for your role in creating these new humans and you get no say in raising them, in rules, in judgement, anythin. The reward for Mormon women in the eternities is to become a god making factory, a brood mare, one of several, in a long and endless process.
• In the temple, when a woman is sealed to her husband for time and eternity, she is directly promising to obey the authority of her husband. And her husband makes promises to God. She doesn't get to make promises to God. Only to her husband, whom she must obey. In practice, it might look like a regular marriage with the husband cooking and doing dishes and the wife with a job. But these covenants n the temple are like signing a heavenly contract and the "documentation" in the eternal book says the husband talks to God directly as a representative for the family unit and the wife follows his lead.
• In church, women have their own organization called the Relief Society with a president and counsellors appointed to her. She has no actual authority in running the local church. She runs the sunday school classes for the women and runs activities during the week. She doesn't collect tithing, she doesn't gives blessings, she doesn't meet privately with her flock to hear their sins and help them through repentance. All o that is still passed upwards to the bishop or stake president of the local ward. And every decision she makes must be approved and overseen by the bishop. If she has an activity in the middle of the week with the women using the church to make crafts or do something for charity, a priesthood holder, usually the bishop or one of his counselors, has to be present. It's not a church sanctioined activity without a worthy priesthood representative (and only men have the power of the priesthood). There are no women and never have been in any of the highest positions of authority in the church. The highest a woman can get is the Relief Society President for the whole church. She gets to have some input in the yearly themes for Relief Society and helps organize the lessons all the lower level RS presidents at the local levels get to teach to their classes. It all needs final approval from the male authority in the church before it ever gets printed and handed out to the rest of the church.
• If you are a single mother in Mormonism, a widow, or your husband is not worthy/absent for a temporary time, you cannot give blessings to your children when they are sick. You do not have the authority or power to pray over your sick child and ask for God to make them well. Not in the official sense. You need to call the local ward and they will send over a worthy priesthood holder to do it for you. Men get the priesthood starting at 12 years old. If you are a mother with a 12 year old son, he has more power through God than you do and could perform healing miracles on your children.
I could go on but you get the point. As a Mormon, I would have defended women as equal yet different with just as much power as men. Yet the actual doctrines and practice of gospel speaks of subservience, less authority, less power, and less privilege. So, a religious person can say all they like "women aren't second class! Women just have different roles!" but it's just more of the same cognitive dissonance where your standards of "equality" do not match up with the rest of reality.
