RE: The meaninglessness of the Christian god concept
November 13, 2011 at 2:19 am
(This post was last modified: November 13, 2011 at 2:20 am by Mystic.)
(November 13, 2011 at 12:34 am)toro Wrote: The problem is you are defining deities as "greatness" without defining what you mean by "greatness". This term has multiple definitions, many of which are contradictory.
You would never get a definition of anything, if you had to define what defines it, because then you would have to define what defines that and so on.
I don't have to define greatness, we may differ on some aspects of greatness, while agree on other aspects, but most humans believe there is such things as greatness, in most, I would say almost all. Even if you don't, greatness is obviously meaningful, so the word is not meaningless. It stating something deserves Worship. If you can understand something deserving honor, you can understand something deserving worship.
Quote:It is not very clear, and this is why. I assume by ultimate, you mean "better than all others".
Better then all others is implied, but what I mean is it excells to the extent you can't excel more then that.
Quote:Then God is more wise*, merciful*, compassionate*, and good* than everyone else.
*this indicates adjectives which are defined subjective and require comparison to put into context. Some people are considered wise by some and not wise by others. This means wisdom is subjective, not objective. As are the other attributes.
Hence if God is possibly wise from point of view, POV1, that means he is possibly not wise from some point of view, POV2. Hence, he cannot be "ultimately wise" without being logically contradictory to the common definition of the term "wise". If it is a new definition of "wise", one now needs to define the new word "wise".
Your basically stating you can't call anyone wise, which makes no sense, that's at the end saying there is no such thing as wisdom. If you believe in wisdom, then you can believe in ultimate wisdom, which is what God has.
Quote:If one then says "POV1 is the correct evaluation of wisdom value" then the definition is as arbitrary as saying "God is God", as is the proof:[/quote]
1. God's POV1 is the correct POV. (Premise)
2. God is defined as the being that is wiser than everyone else in POV1. (Premise)
3. God is wiser than everyone else in his POV1. (Premise)
5. Therefore, God is God. (From 1,2,3)
This all getting to complicated. Even if you think no one can be called wisdom in a universal way, it doesn't make meaningless. Because you can understand the point of view people have of seeing wisdom in a universal way.
Quote:Furthermore, this definition has other issues. Does this mean God becomes more wise when another person becomes wiser than God? Does this mean there is objective value to characteristics of wisdom and people are not able to reach a certain level of wisdom? If so, why are we limited in how wise we can become? What is this objective value, and where can we find it? Why are the values of wisdom in the holy books which supposedly contain this truth self-contradictory? If this is the case, what is wisdom?
This is getting all too complicated. Most people know what is meant by wisdom, and I would say there is a universal understanding of wisdom.
It's like morality, we all understand morality, but might differ on the details. We all understand what wisdom is, but we can differ on the details.
However we can state for sure God is wise, from what we all agree upon what wisdom is.