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Current time: December 11, 2024, 9:41 pm

Poll: Does the mind produce thoughts or do thoughts produce the mind?
This poll is closed.
Mind produces thoughts
26.67%
4 26.67%
Thoughts produce mind
6.67%
1 6.67%
Both
13.33%
2 13.33%
Neither
53.33%
8 53.33%
Total 15 vote(s) 100%
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Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness?
(September 9, 2021 at 5:07 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:
(September 9, 2021 at 4:12 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: It was from Wikipedia actually. But it could very well be that I’m misunderstanding what they’re talking about here. Feel free to clarify for me. 😁

Yup. Thomas Nagel agrees with you, Camus.

I find his take on the mind/body problem interesting. Yet another contender for "a theory that might be better than functionalism."

Quote:Nagel famously asserts that "an organism has conscious mental states if and only if there is something that it is like to be that organism—something it is like for the organism."[2] This assertion has achieved special status in consciousness studies as "the standard 'what it's like' locution."[3] Daniel Dennett, while sharply disagreeing on some points, acknowledged Nagel's paper as "the most widely cited and influential thought experiment about consciousness."[4]:441
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_...e_a_Bat%3F

So, to Nagel, if it is :like something" to be a p-zombie, then a p-zombie is conscious (and therefore no p-zombie at all). Dennett, a functionalist, disagrees with this thesis. Like Dennett, I'm a little leary of Nagel's theory... it is a rejection of physicalism after all. But his thought experiments are interesting.



Quote:The paper [What Is It Like to Be a Bat?] argues that the subjective nature of consciousness undermines any attempt to explain consciousness via objective, reductionist means. The subjective character of experience cannot be explained by a system of functional or intentional states. Consciousness cannot be fully explained if the subjective character of experience is ignored, and the subjective character of experience cannot be explained by a reductionist; it is a mental phenomenon that cannot be reduced to materialism.

Sometimes I wonder how much of a role (if any) the development of language played in spurring consciousness experience. When I think about “what it is like,” it seems impossible to consider without the language necessary to identify and describe those experiences. So much of how we refer to ourselves and to the world we come in contact with is couched in metaphor and comparison. Though it could just be a failure of my imagination.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 21, 2021 at 1:12 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Ahriman - August 21, 2021 at 2:17 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 22, 2021 at 2:04 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - August 25, 2021 at 4:10 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 26, 2021 at 8:49 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - August 21, 2021 at 7:48 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 27, 2021 at 12:53 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - August 27, 2021 at 1:33 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 27, 2021 at 2:22 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 29, 2021 at 7:03 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Jackalope - August 21, 2021 at 8:20 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 21, 2021 at 9:50 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - August 23, 2021 at 11:57 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 26, 2021 at 8:03 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Nay_Sayer - August 23, 2021 at 12:05 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Spongebob - August 23, 2021 at 3:37 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 26, 2021 at 8:10 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by brewer - August 26, 2021 at 8:28 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by AFTT47 - August 31, 2021 at 12:56 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - August 31, 2021 at 1:25 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 31, 2021 at 1:58 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - August 31, 2021 at 9:27 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 31, 2021 at 6:40 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - August 31, 2021 at 8:01 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 1, 2021 at 9:20 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 1, 2021 at 10:59 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - September 1, 2021 at 11:11 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 1, 2021 at 11:51 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - September 1, 2021 at 11:59 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 1, 2021 at 1:10 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 1, 2021 at 2:55 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 1, 2021 at 4:15 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 1, 2021 at 4:49 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 1, 2021 at 5:03 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 1, 2021 at 5:34 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 1, 2021 at 5:53 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - September 2, 2021 at 5:16 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 31, 2021 at 2:57 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - August 23, 2021 at 3:53 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by brewer - August 23, 2021 at 4:11 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Secular Elf - August 23, 2021 at 4:15 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by brewer - August 23, 2021 at 6:37 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - August 23, 2021 at 5:21 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Silver - August 26, 2021 at 8:08 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by brewer - August 26, 2021 at 9:12 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 26, 2021 at 5:13 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - August 26, 2021 at 5:42 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 26, 2021 at 6:16 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - August 27, 2021 at 6:29 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 26, 2021 at 8:08 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Jehanne - August 26, 2021 at 8:25 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 26, 2021 at 8:37 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Ahriman - August 26, 2021 at 8:25 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 26, 2021 at 8:44 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 26, 2021 at 8:27 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Ahriman - August 26, 2021 at 8:30 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Jehanne - August 26, 2021 at 8:31 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Ahriman - August 26, 2021 at 8:36 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Jehanne - August 26, 2021 at 8:39 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Ahriman - August 26, 2021 at 8:40 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LostLocke - August 26, 2021 at 9:05 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 26, 2021 at 9:36 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by brewer - August 26, 2021 at 9:46 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Jehanne - August 26, 2021 at 11:23 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 26, 2021 at 8:37 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Silver - August 27, 2021 at 6:40 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Jehanne - August 27, 2021 at 10:29 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 28, 2021 at 12:44 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - August 28, 2021 at 2:27 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 28, 2021 at 3:50 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - August 29, 2021 at 8:26 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 29, 2021 at 9:33 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2021 at 9:22 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - August 29, 2021 at 9:38 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - August 30, 2021 at 6:14 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - August 30, 2021 at 10:21 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Silver - August 31, 2021 at 9:33 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Fireball - August 31, 2021 at 10:06 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Silver - August 31, 2021 at 10:24 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 2, 2021 at 5:49 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 2, 2021 at 9:16 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - September 3, 2021 at 4:34 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 2, 2021 at 9:32 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 2, 2021 at 10:36 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - September 2, 2021 at 11:20 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 2, 2021 at 11:56 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - September 2, 2021 at 2:05 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 2, 2021 at 2:08 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 2, 2021 at 2:28 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - September 2, 2021 at 7:28 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 3, 2021 at 12:25 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 5, 2021 at 3:03 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - September 5, 2021 at 6:12 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 2, 2021 at 12:05 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 2, 2021 at 1:25 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 2, 2021 at 1:57 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 2, 2021 at 2:19 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 2, 2021 at 3:01 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 2, 2021 at 2:31 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 2, 2021 at 4:02 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 3, 2021 at 1:00 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 3, 2021 at 1:50 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 3, 2021 at 2:09 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 3, 2021 at 2:55 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 3, 2021 at 3:44 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 3, 2021 at 5:01 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2021 at 7:58 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 4, 2021 at 10:20 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Jehanne - September 4, 2021 at 1:44 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - September 5, 2021 at 12:12 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Jehanne - September 5, 2021 at 9:20 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - September 6, 2021 at 8:29 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 4, 2021 at 10:44 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 5, 2021 at 8:53 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by emjay - September 5, 2021 at 11:32 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 6, 2021 at 10:53 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by emjay - September 7, 2021 at 4:34 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 5, 2021 at 9:30 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 5, 2021 at 12:22 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by emjay - September 5, 2021 at 1:01 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 5, 2021 at 1:20 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by emjay - September 5, 2021 at 1:30 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 6, 2021 at 6:37 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by emjay - September 6, 2021 at 10:26 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 6, 2021 at 11:17 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by emjay - September 6, 2021 at 12:20 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Ahriman - September 6, 2021 at 8:37 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 6, 2021 at 11:57 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LadyForCamus - September 7, 2021 at 9:42 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2021 at 10:26 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LadyForCamus - September 7, 2021 at 10:53 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Silver - September 7, 2021 at 10:34 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 7, 2021 at 11:01 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LadyForCamus - September 8, 2021 at 9:10 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 8, 2021 at 11:44 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - September 8, 2021 at 11:52 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LadyForCamus - September 9, 2021 at 1:06 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 9, 2021 at 1:13 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LadyForCamus - September 9, 2021 at 4:12 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 9, 2021 at 5:07 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 10, 2021 at 10:00 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 10, 2021 at 3:02 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LadyForCamus - September 12, 2021 at 12:09 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 12, 2021 at 1:23 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LadyForCamus - September 12, 2021 at 1:33 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by vulcanlogician - September 9, 2021 at 12:55 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 9, 2021 at 9:22 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 10, 2021 at 7:56 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by LadyForCamus - September 11, 2021 at 3:19 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 12, 2021 at 10:47 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 14, 2021 at 1:38 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 13, 2021 at 11:22 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Angrboda - September 13, 2021 at 11:39 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 13, 2021 at 11:54 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 14, 2021 at 8:33 am
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 14, 2021 at 2:31 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 14, 2021 at 4:55 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 14, 2021 at 6:49 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by HappySkeptic - September 15, 2021 at 4:22 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 16, 2021 at 12:50 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by The Grand Nudger - September 16, 2021 at 2:19 pm
RE: Mindfulness or Mindlessness? - by DLJ - September 21, 2021 at 5:11 am



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