RE: evolution
March 14, 2022 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2022 at 4:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 14, 2022 at 3:23 pm)Angrboda Wrote: I will repeat for the dumb and hard of hearing. Machines do not have consciousness. They are not aware. As to consciousness having advantages, you seem to be misinformed about the credibility of debate. I'm sure your mind is closed to debate, but that's a you problem, not a fact about the debate. There are basically two possible things going on with consciousness. A) the things in consciousness have effects that flow downward from consciousness to the rest of the brain. B) the things in the brain that are not conscious have effects that flow up into consciousness. Your errant machine analogies, as flawed as they are, do nothing to resolve this question as machines do not have anything that can credibly be demonstrated to be like consciousness in humans or any other animal. And your other closed-minded notions like model-control theory cannot be demonstrated because you have not isolated comparable systems in the brain and tied them to consciousness. A primary obstacle to doing so is lack of any identification of the parts of the brain that are responsible for consciousness. What you have is a bundle of conjectures and theories and no actual way to tie them to brains and actual consciousness. You may think that doesn't open the door a crack to allow for debate, but that's because you're full of shit.
That's you being unconvinced by a given explanation for and of self awareness in humans. I'm totally onboard.
I agree that the distance between ourselves and any minimally self aware machine is vast. The distance between that minimally self aware machine and any unaware but otherwise identical machine is comparatively minor. I suspect it's both A and B. Minimally self aware machines all have at least one ability A. I think it's impossible to maintain, with certainty, that every real or purported ability of a specifically human self awareness is in set A. I think we have at least one ability A, though. That we can attend to and direct our attention at least as well as a sorting machine on a factory track. That this confers advantages to us just as it confers advantages to that machine - even if those advantages don't really explain why it's there.
If, for example, as Vulcan put it, a specifically human self awareness is a bob ross thing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
