Illegal downloading

[Tiberius]

So you're saying there is a distinction between providing (copyright) and accepting (stealing)?

Yes, the distinction is that breaking copyright involves the transfer of something that is protected by copyright law (i.e. sending a copyrighted song to a person). Stealing is the illegal acquirement of something that is not yours.

People who download songs illegally are not breaking copyright (the people who upload / distribute are), but they are stealing.

Wikipedia states copyright as "Copyright gives the author of an original work exclusive right for a certain time period in relation to that work, including its publication, distribution and adaptation". Hence someone that interferes with the publication, distribution, and adaptation is breaking copyright law. This does not apply to downloaders (they are not doing any of the above); it applies to the people who are uploading the file (since they break publication / distribution).

That would still mean downloading is crime (stealing) which was what my argument with Meatball was about.

And I agree with you, stealing in any form is wrong.

Not trying to be funny Adrian but I couldn't give a rat's arse about copyleft ... it isn't law, it has no bearing on the concept and is adopted by a bunch of idealists who STILL rely on the normal theft laws to protect other things they own.

Well why wouldn't they rely on normal theft laws? Haven't I just spent the last few posts explaining to you how copyright laws have nothing to do with the illegal acquisition of things? Copyright (and copyleft) is about distribution, theft covers illegally acquisition.

In other words, for example, a software under a copyleft license can be distributed, modified, etc by anyone according to what the license stipulates. However the original acquisition of the software is still protected by standard laws against theft. If you don't pay for the software, you are stealing it.