RE: Argument against atheism
December 19, 2011 at 2:44 pm
(This post was last modified: December 19, 2011 at 3:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Rhizo-The "intelligent perceiver" may supply the "meaning", but that doesn't have anything to do with existence. Two rocks would still be two rocks (objectively speaking) if there were no one to contemplate the number two, or rocks (if the statement lacked any meaning). "Meaning" and "existence" have their own words and definitions for exactly this reason. "Meaning" is anthropic bias writ large. Meaning to whom, in relation to what?
We my be figments of our own imaginations, that being said, this notion is bankrupt of any descriptive or explanatory power. It is indistinguishable from my vantage point from a universe that is not a figment of my imagination. If I am living in a solipsistic universe, my inner solipsist has created a universe which is decidedly not solipsistic. I do not appear to be able to bend or shape the laws in this imaginary world to anything even remotely approximating my own will (which would imply that my will isn't yanking the levers, if any will is yanking the levers at all) and it very much appears to be that things can be demonstrated to exist beyond any reasonable doubts. No leap of faith is required. A leap of faith would be required for me to propose that you are all figments of my imagination, this doesn't appear to be the case. Nonetheless solipsism is a very sturdy argument. Of course, being a concept created by humans in service of a system created by humans to describe what appears to be true to humans we might be ignoring the possibility of bias or error. That's why we look for something beyond what we can imagine or dream up to confirm or discredit our suspicions and conjectures.
Amker- Perhaps the universe is not subjective, and these concepts which you keep invoking are. After twenty some odd pages I can say conclusively that you've completely fucked up a TAG/Sufficient Reason combo. It wouldn't have mattered if you got it right, it would still be garbage. You have no argument. This thread title was deceitful.
The only thing you've managed to do here is show that anything can be called god by people who are inclined to do so. Most of us (perhaps all of us) were already well aware of this. You can call jelly bellies, leprechauns, and obviously even yourself "god" all you like. It's just tossing words into the air.
We my be figments of our own imaginations, that being said, this notion is bankrupt of any descriptive or explanatory power. It is indistinguishable from my vantage point from a universe that is not a figment of my imagination. If I am living in a solipsistic universe, my inner solipsist has created a universe which is decidedly not solipsistic. I do not appear to be able to bend or shape the laws in this imaginary world to anything even remotely approximating my own will (which would imply that my will isn't yanking the levers, if any will is yanking the levers at all) and it very much appears to be that things can be demonstrated to exist beyond any reasonable doubts. No leap of faith is required. A leap of faith would be required for me to propose that you are all figments of my imagination, this doesn't appear to be the case. Nonetheless solipsism is a very sturdy argument. Of course, being a concept created by humans in service of a system created by humans to describe what appears to be true to humans we might be ignoring the possibility of bias or error. That's why we look for something beyond what we can imagine or dream up to confirm or discredit our suspicions and conjectures.
Amker- Perhaps the universe is not subjective, and these concepts which you keep invoking are. After twenty some odd pages I can say conclusively that you've completely fucked up a TAG/Sufficient Reason combo. It wouldn't have mattered if you got it right, it would still be garbage. You have no argument. This thread title was deceitful.
The only thing you've managed to do here is show that anything can be called god by people who are inclined to do so. Most of us (perhaps all of us) were already well aware of this. You can call jelly bellies, leprechauns, and obviously even yourself "god" all you like. It's just tossing words into the air.
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