(December 19, 2011 at 2:32 pm)Epimethean Wrote: And you, sir, do not know what temporal context is.I would have expected you to say that this and that conclusion in my theory contradict the principle, if a principle it is, of the temporal context. It is not only temporal context that I do not know of. There are lot of other things that I am unaware of.
Some of the translations of the passages from the Yasnas that follow are quite unacceptable, if not silly. Can you tell me whether ignorance of temporal context is involved?
(December 19, 2011 at 2:37 pm)Minimalist Wrote: There are other examples of this in history. The Zoroastrian Avesta dates from the Sassanid period but we know that Cyrus and his gang were Zoroastrians centuries earlier.I am working on an article about the “Great Mother” and there I came across the term “cow” as it occurs in avestan yasnas.
“Cow” and more often “Wild Cow” is the name of the woman who, according to the archaic texts, gave birth to humans and thus the term means “Mother.”
(The “Bull” was the erotic partner of the Mother for at that time the women were producing offspring only by means of the sexual act. Bull, of course, means god and the horns of the bull are the symbol of the god).
The treatment of the term “cow” by some translators suffices to explain the reason for our understanding of the ancient people being so pure. How can we learn about them when we trust the translators who render useless their writings ?
Yasna 29.1
29.1 The cow's soul (geus uruua) lamented to you, [the gods]: "For whom did you create me? Who fashioned me? Cruelty, oppression, bloodlust, rage, and violence have fettered me,[And] there is no herdsman for me other than you. Therefore, you must all show me [the way to] good pastures."
geus = noun genitive, singular feminine (nominative: gao = cow)
uruua = noun nominative, singular masculine (uruuan = soul, self )
29.1 Unto you wailed the Ox-soul, "For whom did ye fashion me?
29.1 Unto you (O Ahura and Asha!) the Soul of the Kine (our sacred herds and folk) cried aloud: For whom did ye create me, and by whom did ye fashion me?
Yasna 29.5
29.5 [Zarathustra: And] so, then, do we two -- my soul and the fertile cow's (geusca. aziia) -- devote ourselves with zeal, with hands stretched out to the Lord, So [that] we may dispose the Wise One to [answer our] inquiries. Is there no prospect for the cattle-breeder living justly among the Possessors of the Lie?"
geus–ca, ca = conjunction “and”
aziia = adjective, genitive singular feminine ( azi = fertile)
29.5 (The Ox-Creator) "To Ahura with outspread hands we twain would pray, my soul and that of the pregnant cow, so that we twain urge Mazda with entreaties.
29.5 Therefore it is that we both, my soul and (the soul) of the mother Kine, (are) making our supplications for the two worlds to Ahura, and with hands stretched out in entreaty,
What do you think?
