Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: September 18, 2024, 12:44 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Lazy Atheism?
#89
RE: Lazy Atheism?
(March 9, 2024 at 9:53 am)emjay Wrote: That's all very interesting, but, and I think we've talked about this before, at the end of the day, the value of the Bible to me... such as it is... is as a claim to some sort of truth, ie that God exists and is, does, or did x,y, and z. Do you not see it as that sort of claim? Or even a claim at all? Given that you treat much of it as allegory, or as you say, myth and propaganda, how does that, to you, make a more compelling claim to the existence of God than a factual claim? Or are you just in awe of the literary aspects of it but without treating it as a claim? For me, if the majority of it is relegated to the realm of allegory, myth, and propaganda, without any concrete claim, then that does not make it more, but less compelling, ultimately boiling down to a bunch of random people's vague musings on God, which these days is a dime a dozen.

There's another old tradition of how to read the Bible, that probably goes against modern people's expectations. 

I learned this from reading William Blake, but he got it from a minority mystical strain of Christianity which includes Jacob Boehme, Theresa of Avila, and others of that type. 

For them, it is a key point that God and the world are far beyond what a finite human mind can understand. (At least, under normal circumstances.) Therefore any book which gave us the impression that we had everything figured out would be false. Worse, it would make us stupider by convincing us we know more than we do. So it's crucial for them that the Bible remain unresolved, open-ended, and infinitely interpretable. If you thought you'd figured out the truth behind it all, you'd be wrong. 

A while back someone was trying to persuade me that he knew the real meaning of the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story. He was completely sure that he knew its one and only message, and that every other reading was simply wrong. (Even though his reading was different from that of Maimonides and many others.) In my opinion he was making a modern type of error, interpreting in a da Vinci Code kind of way, to think that each symbol points to exactly one decoded message. 

It seems more reasonable to me to take those stories as provocations which we respond to. How we respond tells us as much about ourselves (and our relationship to God, if you believe that sort of thing) as it does about ancient authors. 

Any story could serve the function. But the Bible stories have centuries of added meaning, so that when you read it you're not just reading an ancient text, but all of the weight that has been added to it since by its many genius interpreters.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 4, 2024 at 8:00 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 4, 2024 at 8:18 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 4, 2024 at 8:23 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 4, 2024 at 8:36 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 4, 2024 at 9:31 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jackalope - March 4, 2024 at 10:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jackalope - March 4, 2024 at 10:18 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 4, 2024 at 11:07 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - March 4, 2024 at 11:09 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 5, 2024 at 2:26 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Angrboda - March 5, 2024 at 1:02 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 5, 2024 at 7:53 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 6, 2024 at 5:58 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Angrboda - March 6, 2024 at 9:25 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 6, 2024 at 1:14 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 13, 2024 at 9:33 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 13, 2024 at 9:51 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 14, 2024 at 12:14 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 15, 2024 at 8:18 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 15, 2024 at 1:15 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 16, 2024 at 6:51 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 16, 2024 at 1:07 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 16, 2024 at 10:44 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - June 17, 2024 at 2:01 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 17, 2024 at 10:09 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 17, 2024 at 8:03 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - June 18, 2024 at 5:40 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - June 18, 2024 at 7:47 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 22, 2024 at 12:48 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 22, 2024 at 1:54 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 24, 2024 at 12:07 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 24, 2024 at 8:38 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by A. Secular Human - June 30, 2024 at 8:27 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ravenshire - June 17, 2024 at 2:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 5, 2024 at 2:28 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 5, 2024 at 9:02 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Spooky - March 5, 2024 at 10:53 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by no one - March 5, 2024 at 12:16 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 5, 2024 at 3:37 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 5, 2024 at 7:53 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 6, 2024 at 5:17 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 6, 2024 at 7:48 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - March 6, 2024 at 8:24 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 6, 2024 at 8:45 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 6, 2024 at 7:58 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 6, 2024 at 8:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 6, 2024 at 8:48 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 7, 2024 at 9:21 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Simon Moon - March 7, 2024 at 12:13 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 7, 2024 at 8:28 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - March 8, 2024 at 7:25 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Magic Pudding. - March 6, 2024 at 7:22 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2024 at 12:20 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 6, 2024 at 5:49 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 6, 2024 at 8:01 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jillybean - March 6, 2024 at 5:57 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 12:01 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 12:02 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 1:23 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 1:48 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fireball - March 8, 2024 at 8:46 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 8, 2024 at 12:07 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 12:32 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 8, 2024 at 12:35 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 8, 2024 at 6:46 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 9, 2024 at 9:53 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 8:08 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 10, 2024 at 1:39 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 10, 2024 at 8:12 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 10, 2024 at 8:25 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 10, 2024 at 8:57 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 10, 2024 at 9:17 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 10, 2024 at 10:51 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 10, 2024 at 11:17 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 10, 2024 at 11:34 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 10, 2024 at 12:11 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 10, 2024 at 9:24 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 10, 2024 at 8:02 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 12:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 8, 2024 at 12:30 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 12:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by emjay - March 8, 2024 at 12:52 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 1:09 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 1:24 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 1:55 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 1:56 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 2:43 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 2:56 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 3:17 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 6:58 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 7:46 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 8:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 8, 2024 at 9:43 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 9:45 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 8, 2024 at 10:45 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 8, 2024 at 10:59 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 8, 2024 at 11:20 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 8, 2024 at 11:13 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 12:38 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 9, 2024 at 5:19 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 9, 2024 at 8:31 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 9, 2024 at 9:38 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 5:27 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 9, 2024 at 5:44 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 7:29 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 9, 2024 at 8:53 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 10, 2024 at 9:19 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 9, 2024 at 7:32 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 9, 2024 at 7:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 8, 2024 at 11:08 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2024 at 9:07 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 8, 2024 at 10:59 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 8, 2024 at 11:18 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - March 9, 2024 at 12:09 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2024 at 9:02 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 9, 2024 at 9:26 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 9, 2024 at 8:00 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 9, 2024 at 9:46 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - March 10, 2024 at 1:42 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 10, 2024 at 1:49 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 10, 2024 at 3:56 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by no one - March 10, 2024 at 8:44 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - March 10, 2024 at 12:44 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 10, 2024 at 1:27 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - March 10, 2024 at 8:34 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 11, 2024 at 11:41 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 11, 2024 at 11:00 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 11, 2024 at 11:57 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ravenshire - March 11, 2024 at 11:59 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - March 11, 2024 at 12:00 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Paleophyte - March 17, 2024 at 1:24 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Elek_the_Chthonaut - March 26, 2024 at 11:29 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 27, 2024 at 5:26 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2024 at 11:05 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 27, 2024 at 11:23 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 27, 2024 at 6:00 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 27, 2024 at 8:13 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 27, 2024 at 8:56 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 27, 2024 at 9:15 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - March 28, 2024 at 12:45 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Angrboda - March 27, 2024 at 10:23 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 27, 2024 at 11:29 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 27, 2024 at 2:39 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fake Messiah - March 28, 2024 at 1:23 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - March 28, 2024 at 8:34 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - March 28, 2024 at 9:32 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Gawdzilla Sama - March 27, 2024 at 9:36 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - March 27, 2024 at 11:31 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 27, 2024 at 11:44 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Prycejosh1987 - June 12, 2024 at 10:35 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 1:24 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 16, 2024 at 9:59 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 17, 2024 at 11:01 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 17, 2024 at 10:07 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 18, 2024 at 12:01 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 18, 2024 at 12:14 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 18, 2024 at 5:28 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ferrocyanide - June 19, 2024 at 10:28 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - June 19, 2024 at 10:41 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 19, 2024 at 11:22 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 6:50 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 17, 2024 at 12:41 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 1:34 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 17, 2024 at 3:38 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 4:45 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 17, 2024 at 5:47 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 6:11 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Valkyrie - June 17, 2024 at 9:45 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - June 17, 2024 at 10:10 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Silver - June 17, 2024 at 6:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 17, 2024 at 6:48 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Angrboda - June 17, 2024 at 11:23 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2024 at 11:24 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - June 23, 2024 at 11:34 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - June 23, 2024 at 1:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Modern Atheism - July 16, 2024 at 3:36 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 16, 2024 at 7:42 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - July 16, 2024 at 8:27 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Modern Atheism - July 17, 2024 at 7:46 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 17, 2024 at 8:03 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Modern Atheism - July 17, 2024 at 1:24 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 17, 2024 at 8:15 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2024 at 9:29 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fireball - July 16, 2024 at 10:22 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Mr Greene - July 16, 2024 at 10:54 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by arewethereyet - July 16, 2024 at 10:00 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Fireball - July 16, 2024 at 10:23 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 12:17 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Thumpalumpacus - July 17, 2024 at 12:42 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Jackalope - July 18, 2024 at 12:21 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:30 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 17, 2024 at 8:19 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - July 18, 2024 at 7:33 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - July 17, 2024 at 10:17 pm
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Belacqua - July 18, 2024 at 6:51 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by Ahriman - July 18, 2024 at 7:52 am
RE: Lazy Atheism? - by brewer - July 18, 2024 at 9:53 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Atheism VS Christian Atheism? IanHulett 80 29096 June 13, 2017 at 11:09 am
Last Post: vorlon13
  Atheism, Scientific Atheism and Antitheism tantric 33 13349 January 18, 2015 at 1:05 pm
Last Post: helyott
  Strong/Gnostic Atheism and Weak/Agnostic Atheism Dystopia 26 12634 August 30, 2014 at 1:34 pm
Last Post: Dawsonite
  Debate share, young earth? atheism coverup? atheism gain? xr34p3rx 13 10790 March 16, 2014 at 11:30 am
Last Post: fr0d0
  A different definition of atheism. Atheism isn't simply lack of belief in god/s fr0d0 14 12418 August 1, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  "Old" atheism, "New"atheism, atheism 3.0, WTF? leo-rcc 69 39543 February 2, 2010 at 3:29 am
Last Post: tackattack



Users browsing this thread: 44 Guest(s)