Does the Quran support Theocracy?

[Ferrocyanide]

1) John 18:36 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not of this world [nor does it have its origin in this world]. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting [hard] to keep Me from being handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this world.”

Just a few things:
1. Anyone can speak those words. No need to be a god or son of god or alien or alien-god.
2. Jesus can’t say something like “Ok, I am going to snap my fingers and my army is going to deal with you.” The moment he does something like that, his followers would understand that he is not capable and half would abandon him. I say half since the level of delusion varies from person to person.
The author who is writing those lines also understands that he would lose a lot of followers by writing something like that. That option is not available to him.
People would be asking “Well, wouldn’t that generate a major war between us and the Romans?” “Wouldn’t we be victors now?”

Imagine if I said I colored Joe Biden’s hair blue yesterday and now, you will all see that his hair is blue. Anyone can turn on the TV and check out Joe Biden’s hair color.
If I say that I walked on water, you aren’t going to see that yourself. All you’ll have is ink on paper.

I’m sure the jews have gone through that a bunch of times as other saviors came and went and non of them had the firepower to deal with the Roman army.

3. John 18:36 is basically nonsense.
Jesus doesn’t need to talk about servants and an army.
He can just snap his fingers and he can come down from the cross or he can erect a force field around himself and no one can catch him or torture him.
No need for an army. No need to harm any roman or jew.


4. There is certainly a pretty strong push to convert everyone into a christian. For example:

Matthew 10:33 KING JAMES VERSION
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

^^^^^In other words, you better convert and you better convert fast or you don’t get the keys to heaven.

5.

Matthew 10:34 KING JAMES VERSION
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. {10:35} For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. {10:36} And a man’s foes [shall be] they of his own household. {10:37} He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. {10:38} And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. {10:39} He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

^^^^^In this one, Jesus seems to be talking about taking action.
The roman army dealt with him quickly so he never got to reach the level of Mohammed.



6.

Matthew 10:37 KING JAMES VERSION
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

^^^^^I’m not sure what prompted Jesus to say this. How exactly do you compare your love level between your son and Jesus?
Is there something that the believer needs to do?
What does he need to do? Get rid of his possessions and follow Jesus? What is the point of that?

7.

Isaiah 9:6 KING JAMES VERSION
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

^^^^^Maybe this one will interest you more. He will be the government.
Some christians mention Isaiah 9:6 to me saying that the jews were waiting for Jesus. I am pretty sure that the jews were waiting for a savior but I have no idea for how long


8. In Revelation, it shows that the ultimate plan is to kill most humans and all animals. He is going to either save his followers or certain jews, which comes out to 144,000 people. These guys are going to be transported to space.
The other saved followers will be on a new Earth, in new Israel, which is shiny and new and it is daylight all the time and most likely, you will have a theocracy since this is the final plan.



CONCLUSION:
It is possible that other saviors reached the point of gathering enough listeners, formed an army, and they went to war with the Romans and they were slaughtered.
I don’t know if the NT is based on a real person, but if it is, it is possible that Jesus did not reach that point. He was not able to get the attention of enough jews and was not able to form an army.
Either that, or he decided at some point that other saviors tried the war thing with Rome and failed and he decided to take the peaceful route.
The problem is that Rome is pissed off with this rebel savior stuff and probably puts a lot of pressure on the priestly class to rat out such people. So, when Jesus and such people are hung, the rest are spared. Life goes on until the next savior pops up.

Which is why they murdered Jesus instead of trying to understand his teachings. Which is why they are stuck where they are stuck right now

I think there were multiple versions of christianity. Different sects formed with different ideas. The christianity that we have today seems to be Paul’s church where the goal is to be more global: bring in the europeans, no need to circumcise and forget a bunch of the jewish god’s laws. Paul ends up arguing with other sects.

It is normal. All religions evolve and split into new sects with new ideas over time.

We did discuss that back in the days when I had Cultural Anthropology classes.

It is good that you mention Anthropology.
One of the books that I have touches upon a very important concept in science. Not many books on chemistry and physics do it.
The concept is called Occam’s Razor.
It basically means go for the mundane explanation before going for aliens and gods and alien-gods and such.

In other words, jews were not chosen by any god. It was their leader that at some point in time decided to switch from polytheism to monotheism.
Who that person was and his reasons are lost through time but in terms of Occam’s razor and history, it is 99% certain that such a person existed. It is guessed that the reasons would be that worshiping an all powerful god makes the people more confident in their god. Secondly, when the priest made that change, was there a very terrible consequence or did something good happen? Again, we don’t know but if nothing terrible happened, the priest would interpret that to be a positive. If something good happened, he would interpret that as the god being pleased with him.

Medieval Legal systems that were based on biblical teachings gradually became modernized with a more rational and practical approach to legal matters.

Modern science took control by around ~1700. Some people noticed that they were getting somewhere by playing around with observation, with telescopes, with microscopes, with taking measurements, with playing with chemicals.
Since various people joined in and they formed a SIG (Special Interests Group), they feed on each other’s work, they encourage each other to push more.

I think it was during the 18xx that there was one major case. The cop noticed a footstep in the mud. He compared it to the footstep of a suspect. There was a match.
The bullet, diameter 1 cm, was stuck in the victim. Around the bullet was a piece of paper from a music sheet. The cop compared it with the music sheets of the suspect and there was a match. The shape of the teared paper was identical.
This was a case of having 0 witnesses. It was encouraging for them.
Another breakthrough was fingerprinting in the 18xx. This was hard to do.
At some point, they started using blood types to catch criminals.
By the 198xs, you have PCR to make a lot of copies of a DNA molecules.
Computer technology helped make fingerprint matches, DNA matches quickly.

^^^^^The above is a quick run down of some history of science.
Why would anyone not use such tools?

Always shave with Occam’s razor. It is normal that a priest from 1500 BCE is not going to develop such forensic techniques. His gods don’t exist. His gods don’t have advanced knowledge so, they can’t teach science.

And the Koran is asking many times “Don’t you ever use your reason? Don’t you ever think about the reality of the situation you are in right now?”.

That is something subjective. Some people reason that the universe is 6000 y old. Some reason that islam should evolve and some rules set by their god need to go to the trash.
Besides, the Koran author can’t say “Use your reason and figure out that the notion of gods is bullshit.”
If the Koran author said “Don’t use your own reasoning”, he is basically calling you an idiot and he also would have to make a much thicker book to cover all circumstances.

So the only way to do what you are saying today is to start living like the Amish and completely isolating ourselves from the realities of the 21st century.

Wait. What did I say? Which realities of the 21 st century are a problem for christianity or islam?

2. I’m not sure what your comment about Emperor Constantine and 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 is about.
Are you saying that rule was set by Emperor Constantine and he injected those lines into the Corinthians book?

As a theist I see God as an inner reality (something like “the Force” in George Lucas movies).

What is a god for you? Does a god have a brain or some kind of data processor? Does he think? Can he communicate with human languages?

Than it became obsolete as well. With stuff like the need for 2 female witnesses for each male witness etc.

Why was that an important rule before? Why was that rule eliminated?I don’t know every rule in Islam. Has the rule about eating pork been eliminated? Has the rule about praying 5 times a day been eliminated?

Ex: The Koran says that Jesus simply walked away after The Last Supper. The man who sold him to the Romans was crucified instead.

I watched Stargate the other day.
The army had a nuclear weapon. They went through the stargate. The plan was to blow up the stargate that was on some foreign planet. I guess they did not want aliens to come to Earth.
The alien master leader though that their plan was to kill him.
At one point, the nuclear bomb was activated. The alien took his space ship and went into space. The army guy was not able to deactivate the timer since the alien had modified the timer.
The army guy put the bomb into a teleporter and the bomb was teleported to the spaceship and boom. All the slave humans on that foreign planet were happy.

These are nice stories.
Some asshole dies and the good guys win.