1) You had said
Well, chemical reactions are already taking place in the brain and neural connections are probably being made and destroyed continuously, even when you are doing nothing or even if the person is comatose.
So, with meditation, what is the change?
Can something actually be demonstrated? Can it be demonstrated that someone became the true essence? What does it entail?
2) There are two ways to view the world:
1. There is the Occam’s Razor way. In this case, we accept that we are observing the natural world. No fairies are being observed. No fairies are coming from their universe to our universe. (Fairies includes aliens and gods and bird people).
We try to explain our reality using mundane explanations.
For example, the Nazca geoglyphs. Why did the people make this? Who made it?
There are no writings about it. I think the people who created the geoglyphs are said to not possess a written language.
This falls under the domain of archeology.
Since we observe only humans today, in science, the tendency is to state that it was created by humans of the past.
Why did they create it? In the domain of anthropology, we use the usual guesses:
Ancient people observed monkeys, fish, spiders, humans and so, they placed some kind of value and decided to draw them on the ground.
It is possible that it was religiously motivated.
The other way to view to world is to inject things into explanations that are extraordinary.
Erik Von Daniken does that.
He suggests that primitive humans could not draw 100 to 150 m long gigantic drawings on the ground without the guidance of superior beings.
I think that explanation is present in his book: The Chariots of the Gods.
So, he thinks that aliens visited the Nazca people and guided them and perhaps the reason was to have markers for their landing site.
Erik Von Daniken follows that line of thinking numerous times and he gives many examples of the form:
They were primitive people. How could they figure out X? Well, they certainly can’t do it on their own. They must have had help from superior beings.
In the case of Erik Von Daniken, the superior beings are aliens.
It is the same thing with Moses. Erik Von Daniken says, How could the king’s geniuses throw their sticks on the ground and turn into snakes.
Erik says there is no such thing as magic and that it was done with technology.
Moses also throws his stick on the ground and it turns into a bigger snake and it eats the other snakes.
So, for primitive men, those beings were gods. The aliens had “powers” that primitive men did not understand so they presumed that the gods that they believed in for thousands of years must have finally come and helped them out.
^^^^^Does the above explanation help?
3) Well, that is the issue. One guy says that we have a soul and that is the “intellect, will, thought, psyche” and that stuff is in an operation state because the brain is functioning. When the brain is destroyed, the soul is destroyed.
Another guy says that the soul can exist without the body.
I can understand the first case. It is similar to a PC running Win XP. The PC has the hardware (The CPU and RAM) and it is capable of running the software (Win XP).
Perhaps a more direct comparison would be to compare the brain to a ASIC.
Anyway, if the PC is damaged, how could Win XP run? There is no Win XP without the hardware. Win XP is dead.
I have never seen a software run without hardware. I have never seen “intellect, will, thought, psyche” without a brain.
This is like saying, you can have music without a cassette player, without a cassette, without any atoms.
I doesn’t make sense and I have never seen such an example.
The guy who wrote that, did he observe something or is he making it up?
He made his heart light and he moved to paradise? What is the supporting evidence?
Did he just close his eyes and see things? Because I am able to do that as well.
If you are interested in research in science, you would have to be interested in some specific topic, some specific case. You read about it has much as you can and design a worthwhile experiment.
In your paper, you document what your procedures are, what references you used.
But when you say inner working, what are you going to do? What have you done so far and what have you discovered?
What do you mean by in the old days, there is a more the merrier thing?
I can’t say much about “new-age section of a bookstore”. I have never looked into it. I have a book that I bought 2 y ago and I read a few pages and it was getting weird. He starts saying weird things and my first reaction is “How was this discovered? Where was this discovered?” He makes no mention of chemicals, no mention of equipment, no mention of methodology.
It is the same problem with Lafayette Ron Hubbard. He says there is an intergallactic warlord named Xenu, something about overpopulation on his many planets, .... well you know the rest.
So how the heck did he find out about all this? Does he have a special TV and the aliens are sending him documentaries? Does he have an alien history channel?
=====Let me be honest. For a smooth cool shave, use Occam’s Razor. The ladies will love you!
Lafayette Ron Hubbard is full of shit. It is as simple as that. He should get a shave and so should Tom Cruise.
4,5)
I don’t understand. You said spirituality and then you began talking about ego and state that the ego has short term goals.
Global warming is the result of lack of planning and it has to do with capitalism.
For example, when someone discovers that from petrol, you make ethene and from ethene you can make polyethylene (polyethene), then someone figures out how to make molds, how to inject plastic into molds.
So, companies get created that start making various plastic objects.
Taking back those plastic objects is not part of the plan.
Doing that adds a lot of complexity and cost.
It was not part of the plan that all countries of the world would become like the USA.
It was not part of the plan that the population would explode.
Solving such problems in the 1890(?) did not interest them since those problems did not exist.
(Plastics don’t cause GW but I wanted to talk about a problem that humans will run into repeatably.)
So, from petrol, you can make jet fuel, diesel, gasoline.
Back in 1890(?), it looked like there is an ocean of petrol in Texas.
There was no plan to put compressors on cars, collect the CO2, liquefy it, send it back to the company.
Doing that adds a lot of complexity and cost.
It is the same issue. Everyone wants the USA lifestyle and also the population exploded.
Wanting to do something about it is a major scientific and engineering challenge. There are many amateur chemists, engineers, physicist. A bunch of scientific discoveries were made by amateurs in 16xx, 17xx, 18xx.
I know that one canadian, I think in late 70s, converted his car to burn NH3. It outputs N2 and H2O.
The problem is the economy and also NH3 is dangerous so there is a set of problems to solve.
There are some problems that he can’t solve: The population has exploded. That amateur chemist can’t convince people to reduce the population. He can’t convince India and China to turn back the clock and use bicycles.
The modern human is very reliant on cars and trucks.
The amateurish cars of the 1890(?) are unacceptable to the modern human.
Products sold to the consumer has to be perfect otherwise the consumers will kill you. The government will kill you.
If you are Ford, you would want to be the first? If you are the first to market an EV and as soon as they learn that the car is less than perfect, the people will call and demand their money back.
Then, there is another layer of problem. Car companies and petrol company VPs are probably good friends.
Pharmaceutical companies run into the same problem. If my company is Bio-tech, should I design a new drug to fight a certain rare type of cancer? Why should I do that? Why should I spend billions of dollars and years and risk bankruptcy?
It is safer to make known and safe generic drugs.
THE SOLUTION:
There are some things that should not be run as a business. A hospital should not be a business. Imagine going to a hospital, the hospital decides that there is not enough profit in solving your problem and asks you to leave.
Or, the doctor struggles to identify your problem and just gives up and says, you have anxiety, there is nothing I can do.
Some people want to just solve the easy problems, and quickly. It makes them look efficient. It makes them took competent.
Pharmaceutical companies should not be a business. They should be under government control. All diseases should be solved. Drugs and other methods should be developed for all diseases.
Space exploration: The only reason that NASA succeeded was that it was not a capitalistic business. They threw a lot of resources at it until success was research. It was about beating the russians.
Once you hire businessmen to run NASA, they are going to cut left and right.
Boeing and Intel are a good example of this. Boeing latest plane has quality issues. The R&D budget was cut by the big wigs bc they want higher profits. Also, they considered some accidents as “part of the business”.
For Intel, they cut the R&D. The profits skyrocketed. The stocks looked great.
AMD had highered a bunch of Intel engineers and came out with Ryzen.
The CEO was then replaced by an engineer who began to invest heavily into their R&D to play catch up.
Anyway, tell me about spirituality. How does it solve these capitalist problems, these ecological disasters?
5,5) Who decides who is going to be a caliph?
6,5)
The solar system is important to me in the sense that I need this planet to live and also I depend on the Sun for food and energy.
Other solar systems do not provide enough gravity and energy to have much significance.
It is possible that I did not understand the point you are trying to make.
I don’t know much about it other than it is suspected that it adds additional gravitational pull that keeps the milky way galaxy together.
Anything else you want to add?
7) YEC means young earth creationist. I only follow mostly what happens in european flavor of countries, so nearly all YEC are from the USA and nearly all are christian.
There is a small proportion of jews and mulsims that are YEC as well.
You would need to convince all people to treat each other with respect, get rid of borders or have some form of land equality and resource sharing.
You would also have to convince them to forget the past issues.
That is not going to happen.
For example, Russia invaded Ukraine since there are a lot of russians there. If those were some other people, they would not care.
Russia can also claim that in the past, they owned Crimea and they want it back.
(There might be some additional reasons for Russia to invade Ukraine, such as NATO and natural gas deposits in Ukraine)
For europeans style countries, it bothers them a lot that Ukraine has been invaded. They want to give that impression. In reality, they dislike Putin and his bolsheviks. Those are their enemies and so, they want some other guy to fight Putin.
There are other countries that are getting invaded and massacred. Those countries are not important for the european interests so they don’t talk about them every day.
8)
You could. You had written:
“To sum up: There is no “divine ruler” As Jesus has said “My kingdom is not of this earth” + “Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and give to God the things that are God's.” (Luke 20:25)”
and I wrote:
We discussed this in these forums once.
I think some said that Jesus or whoever wrote that line did not wish to start a war with the Romans. Some think that the text is written by clever roman spies who want to cool down the hot heads that are in some sects. I think one person said that Jesus is acting as a sellout, as someone who isn’t going to truly save Israel from Rome.
My personal view is that if Jesus really did say those 2 things, we can process them via Occam’s Razor:
Jesus is just an ordinary human but he believes that he comes from space or heaven and that he is a messenger or he is the son of god or he thinks he is the jewish god.
On the other hand, I could say that my kingdom is also that space or heaven thing. I don’t mean that I am the owner. I don’t mean that I am the king of that kingdom. I am saying that I am a citizen.
I could also say that my country is Canada. I don’t mean that I own Canada. I don’t mean that I am the Prime Minister. I am saying that I am a citizen.
For the comment about Ceasar, we can process them via Occam’s Razor:
Even a loon can be logical. It is possible that Jesus knows that he can’t do much about the powerful Roman army. So, might as well tell the people to respect the Roman rules and to pay their taxes to Rome.
I think that is fine. Wisdom can be found anywhere.
It can be found in cartoons, in children’s books, random websites, random people who think about these human life issues.
9)
Atheism as a solution?
Well, if the person is in a cult that harms the person, for example, it convinces you that you should starve yourself and you should be happy that you are brainwashed, it is best to leave that group. The people of Heaven’s Gate had that attitude. They were happy to be brainwashed. A few of the members said it out loud.
Also, they are happy that they will be extending their lives by committing suicide so that their soul gets transferred to the alien spaceship that was behind Halley's comet.
Scientology: If you are a member and you leave and you speak about the problems of scientology, they call you a squirrel. They send agents to follow you everywhere you go. They might station themselves near your house and film you 24h/day. They make all your personal details that you told them public. What a fine example of human beings. They don’t realize that they make themselves look like shit.
The catholic church: If you badmouth Jesus or say something against doctrine, they hang you or burn you. Just like the scientologists, they make themselves look like shit. Although they stopped doing that centuries ago, people still talk about it.
They do good things as well, such as hospitals were run by them.
Right now, they look like shit since they are against gays and trans.
I’m sure a lot of priests want to accept gays but Jesus wants his church to be shitty.
The mormon church (LDS): if a family member leave the religion, a lot of them perform shunning. They don’t realize that they make themselves look like shit.
Maybe the parent wants to continue contact with their child that left the church. Some ask them many times to return.
This makes their religion look like shit.
Some parents don’t do the shunning thing.
The church is also against gay and trans. I’m sure that the top leaders are struggling. Right now, they have doubled down, they show themselves to be absolutely certain that Jesus wants to get rid of gays and trans (They must go to HELL).
Other christian sects also have that same shunning thing. Amish and Jewhova’s witnesses.
This makes their religion look like shit.
Apparently, the top leaders of the Jewhova’s witnesses broke down. You don’t need to shun anymore.
Big Jehovah's Witness Changes | Women Can Wear Pants Now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmFtpAZrCc
By Owen Morgan
Length = 1:13:00
^^^^^shunning policy
(You don’t need to watch it. It is a very long video)
This is an old video. In this time period, shunning is important. This was 1 y ago.
Jehovahs Witnesses Want Their People To Shun Children
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7gJWOJ7LYY
By Owen Morgan (Telltale)
Length = 21:07
^^^^^This is how Jehovah’s Witnesses program their children.
It is about a teen getting shunned by her parents. The video might be targeted at both parents and children. They want to make the parents feel ok with shunning their kid.
This is the kind of thing that cults do.
We were also talking about Global Warming.
If that is what you mean by new thought, these are issues that no religion can solve.
Global Warming comes from engineering and mass manufacturing.
Science is nice. It is a way to learn about how the universe operates.
Science doesn’t contain instructions on what policies to apply and how to run multimillion size cities.
When you go into mass manufacturing mode, it creates ecological problems.
One or two amateur chemists dumping potassium dichromate down the drain is not a big deal. When you have a company that dumps megatons into a river, it becomes a problem.
When you have millions of people using antibioticts for generations, you get antibiotic resistant bacteria.
11)
I think the UFO cults is something that is much older than that. They probably started in the 70s.
I only know of the Heaven’s gate cult that was a UFO religion and they did suicide.
All these religions, Heaven’s gate, mormon, islam, judaism, christianity, hinduism, I don’t see why the members don’t commit suicide.
Because if you view this life as hard, as troublesome, as ruled by the devil or something and you are going to die to go to some paradise, why not do it today?
If you believe that by killing the traitors of god will get you into paradise, why not kill people today?
As an atheist, I don’t kill people because I want a well structured society that has a strong scientific organization who’s focus is on learning. Also, I don’t believe that there is a paradise. Even if there is a paradise, a god can’t convince me to kill others (Abraham was convinced to kill his son). That god can go fuck himself.
If something breaks, I view it as a challenge.
-If you fail at an exam, study more and try again.
-If your TV breaks, figure out which component failed.
-If your roof fails, get some wooden boards and materials and fix it yourself.
-If you have some body issue, go to the doctors and mechanics and they will install a new heart or kidney.
Which ones?
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: But I am not talking of visions / apparitions / telepathic connection to something like “Cornelius, The Admiral of the Galactic Fleet”.
As we evolve in that direction, the energy flows are changing, the structure of the brain is changing. Transandental meditation is something like that. Advanced meditators are able to “experience” their True Essence like that. And they are even able to stay there.
But again: This doesn’t come for free and it rarely happens rapidly. Most of us are simply “on the path” of getting there.
Well, chemical reactions are already taking place in the brain and neural connections are probably being made and destroyed continuously, even when you are doing nothing or even if the person is comatose.
So, with meditation, what is the change?
Can something actually be demonstrated? Can it be demonstrated that someone became the true essence? What does it entail?
2) There are two ways to view the world:
1. There is the Occam’s Razor way. In this case, we accept that we are observing the natural world. No fairies are being observed. No fairies are coming from their universe to our universe. (Fairies includes aliens and gods and bird people).
We try to explain our reality using mundane explanations.
For example, the Nazca geoglyphs. Why did the people make this? Who made it?
There are no writings about it. I think the people who created the geoglyphs are said to not possess a written language.
This falls under the domain of archeology.
Since we observe only humans today, in science, the tendency is to state that it was created by humans of the past.
Why did they create it? In the domain of anthropology, we use the usual guesses:
Ancient people observed monkeys, fish, spiders, humans and so, they placed some kind of value and decided to draw them on the ground.
It is possible that it was religiously motivated.
The other way to view to world is to inject things into explanations that are extraordinary.
Erik Von Daniken does that.
He suggests that primitive humans could not draw 100 to 150 m long gigantic drawings on the ground without the guidance of superior beings.
I think that explanation is present in his book: The Chariots of the Gods.
So, he thinks that aliens visited the Nazca people and guided them and perhaps the reason was to have markers for their landing site.
Erik Von Daniken follows that line of thinking numerous times and he gives many examples of the form:
They were primitive people. How could they figure out X? Well, they certainly can’t do it on their own. They must have had help from superior beings.
In the case of Erik Von Daniken, the superior beings are aliens.
It is the same thing with Moses. Erik Von Daniken says, How could the king’s geniuses throw their sticks on the ground and turn into snakes.
Erik says there is no such thing as magic and that it was done with technology.
Moses also throws his stick on the ground and it turns into a bigger snake and it eats the other snakes.
So, for primitive men, those beings were gods. The aliens had “powers” that primitive men did not understand so they presumed that the gods that they believed in for thousands of years must have finally come and helped them out.
^^^^^Does the above explanation help?
3) Well, that is the issue. One guy says that we have a soul and that is the “intellect, will, thought, psyche” and that stuff is in an operation state because the brain is functioning. When the brain is destroyed, the soul is destroyed.
Another guy says that the soul can exist without the body.
I can understand the first case. It is similar to a PC running Win XP. The PC has the hardware (The CPU and RAM) and it is capable of running the software (Win XP).
Perhaps a more direct comparison would be to compare the brain to a ASIC.
Anyway, if the PC is damaged, how could Win XP run? There is no Win XP without the hardware. Win XP is dead.
I have never seen a software run without hardware. I have never seen “intellect, will, thought, psyche” without a brain.
This is like saying, you can have music without a cassette player, without a cassette, without any atoms.
I doesn’t make sense and I have never seen such an example.
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: And if you want to discuss about the rest, the best reference is the Egyptian Book of the dead. Which says that “if our heart is lighter than the feather of a bird” than we move directly to paradise (or heaven).
The guy who wrote that, did he observe something or is he making it up?
He made his heart light and he moved to paradise? What is the supporting evidence?
Did he just close his eyes and see things? Because I am able to do that as well.
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: But let me tell you this: When I moved to Graduate school, my BA school told me that he was not going to spoonfeed me with all sorts of information anymore and that I was trained enough to do my own research and studying all by myself now (and he would simply supervise that).
So we are not kids anymore. İn the old days there were those strict rules that were dictated on us. + There was this “The more the merrier” thing. I don’t believe in that. To me, there is this inner work that needs to be done (that’s how I see it). And the reason for that is that there is an urgency for that. And only I can do the necessary work for myself. And that’s the only thing that matters.
If you are interested in research in science, you would have to be interested in some specific topic, some specific case. You read about it has much as you can and design a worthwhile experiment.
In your paper, you document what your procedures are, what references you used.
But when you say inner working, what are you going to do? What have you done so far and what have you discovered?
What do you mean by in the old days, there is a more the merrier thing?
I can’t say much about “new-age section of a bookstore”. I have never looked into it. I have a book that I bought 2 y ago and I read a few pages and it was getting weird. He starts saying weird things and my first reaction is “How was this discovered? Where was this discovered?” He makes no mention of chemicals, no mention of equipment, no mention of methodology.
It is the same problem with Lafayette Ron Hubbard. He says there is an intergallactic warlord named Xenu, something about overpopulation on his many planets, .... well you know the rest.
So how the heck did he find out about all this? Does he have a special TV and the aliens are sending him documentaries? Does he have an alien history channel?
=====Let me be honest. For a smooth cool shave, use Occam’s Razor. The ladies will love you!
Lafayette Ron Hubbard is full of shit. It is as simple as that. He should get a shave and so should Tom Cruise.
4,5)
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Our answer is spirituality: Ego-based consciousness lacks insight. It only thinks of short time profit and cannot even consider the very real possibility that our kind might not exist anymore. That’s how dumb the Ego is. Socialists did have their chance too. You cannot change the outer without changing the inner. It’s as simple as that.
I don’t understand. You said spirituality and then you began talking about ego and state that the ego has short term goals.
Global warming is the result of lack of planning and it has to do with capitalism.
For example, when someone discovers that from petrol, you make ethene and from ethene you can make polyethylene (polyethene), then someone figures out how to make molds, how to inject plastic into molds.
So, companies get created that start making various plastic objects.
Taking back those plastic objects is not part of the plan.
Doing that adds a lot of complexity and cost.
It was not part of the plan that all countries of the world would become like the USA.
It was not part of the plan that the population would explode.
Solving such problems in the 1890(?) did not interest them since those problems did not exist.
(Plastics don’t cause GW but I wanted to talk about a problem that humans will run into repeatably.)
So, from petrol, you can make jet fuel, diesel, gasoline.
Back in 1890(?), it looked like there is an ocean of petrol in Texas.
There was no plan to put compressors on cars, collect the CO2, liquefy it, send it back to the company.
Doing that adds a lot of complexity and cost.
It is the same issue. Everyone wants the USA lifestyle and also the population exploded.
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Why isn’t anyone doing anything since 1989
Wanting to do something about it is a major scientific and engineering challenge. There are many amateur chemists, engineers, physicist. A bunch of scientific discoveries were made by amateurs in 16xx, 17xx, 18xx.
I know that one canadian, I think in late 70s, converted his car to burn NH3. It outputs N2 and H2O.
The problem is the economy and also NH3 is dangerous so there is a set of problems to solve.
There are some problems that he can’t solve: The population has exploded. That amateur chemist can’t convince people to reduce the population. He can’t convince India and China to turn back the clock and use bicycles.
The modern human is very reliant on cars and trucks.
The amateurish cars of the 1890(?) are unacceptable to the modern human.
Products sold to the consumer has to be perfect otherwise the consumers will kill you. The government will kill you.
If you are Ford, you would want to be the first? If you are the first to market an EV and as soon as they learn that the car is less than perfect, the people will call and demand their money back.
Then, there is another layer of problem. Car companies and petrol company VPs are probably good friends.
Pharmaceutical companies run into the same problem. If my company is Bio-tech, should I design a new drug to fight a certain rare type of cancer? Why should I do that? Why should I spend billions of dollars and years and risk bankruptcy?
It is safer to make known and safe generic drugs.
THE SOLUTION:
There are some things that should not be run as a business. A hospital should not be a business. Imagine going to a hospital, the hospital decides that there is not enough profit in solving your problem and asks you to leave.
Or, the doctor struggles to identify your problem and just gives up and says, you have anxiety, there is nothing I can do.
Some people want to just solve the easy problems, and quickly. It makes them look efficient. It makes them took competent.
Pharmaceutical companies should not be a business. They should be under government control. All diseases should be solved. Drugs and other methods should be developed for all diseases.
Space exploration: The only reason that NASA succeeded was that it was not a capitalistic business. They threw a lot of resources at it until success was research. It was about beating the russians.
Once you hire businessmen to run NASA, they are going to cut left and right.
Boeing and Intel are a good example of this. Boeing latest plane has quality issues. The R&D budget was cut by the big wigs bc they want higher profits. Also, they considered some accidents as “part of the business”.
For Intel, they cut the R&D. The profits skyrocketed. The stocks looked great.
AMD had highered a bunch of Intel engineers and came out with Ryzen.
The CEO was then replaced by an engineer who began to invest heavily into their R&D to play catch up.
Anyway, tell me about spirituality. How does it solve these capitalist problems, these ecological disasters?
5,5) Who decides who is going to be a caliph?
6,5)
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: What are we just within the Solar system (if you look at it)? Yet we think it’s all so important when actually it isn’t
The solar system is important to me in the sense that I need this planet to live and also I depend on the Sun for food and energy.
Other solar systems do not provide enough gravity and energy to have much significance.
It is possible that I did not understand the point you are trying to make.
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Dark matter constitute like 90% of the Universe or more.
I don’t know much about it other than it is suspected that it adds additional gravitational pull that keeps the milky way galaxy together.
Anything else you want to add?
7) YEC means young earth creationist. I only follow mostly what happens in european flavor of countries, so nearly all YEC are from the USA and nearly all are christian.
There is a small proportion of jews and mulsims that are YEC as well.
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: protecting our children (all of them) and living as free / respectable inhabitants of this planet. (Again deeper subject)
You would need to convince all people to treat each other with respect, get rid of borders or have some form of land equality and resource sharing.
You would also have to convince them to forget the past issues.
That is not going to happen.
For example, Russia invaded Ukraine since there are a lot of russians there. If those were some other people, they would not care.
Russia can also claim that in the past, they owned Crimea and they want it back.
(There might be some additional reasons for Russia to invade Ukraine, such as NATO and natural gas deposits in Ukraine)
For europeans style countries, it bothers them a lot that Ukraine has been invaded. They want to give that impression. In reality, they dislike Putin and his bolsheviks. Those are their enemies and so, they want some other guy to fight Putin.
There are other countries that are getting invaded and massacred. Those countries are not important for the european interests so they don’t talk about them every day.
8)
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: You are not a YEC but if you were I would tell you to look at what Jesus really did and say.
You could. You had written:
“To sum up: There is no “divine ruler” As Jesus has said “My kingdom is not of this earth” + “Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and give to God the things that are God's.” (Luke 20:25)”
and I wrote:
We discussed this in these forums once.
I think some said that Jesus or whoever wrote that line did not wish to start a war with the Romans. Some think that the text is written by clever roman spies who want to cool down the hot heads that are in some sects. I think one person said that Jesus is acting as a sellout, as someone who isn’t going to truly save Israel from Rome.
My personal view is that if Jesus really did say those 2 things, we can process them via Occam’s Razor:
Jesus is just an ordinary human but he believes that he comes from space or heaven and that he is a messenger or he is the son of god or he thinks he is the jewish god.
On the other hand, I could say that my kingdom is also that space or heaven thing. I don’t mean that I am the owner. I don’t mean that I am the king of that kingdom. I am saying that I am a citizen.
I could also say that my country is Canada. I don’t mean that I own Canada. I don’t mean that I am the Prime Minister. I am saying that I am a citizen.
For the comment about Ceasar, we can process them via Occam’s Razor:
Even a loon can be logical. It is possible that Jesus knows that he can’t do much about the powerful Roman army. So, might as well tell the people to respect the Roman rules and to pay their taxes to Rome.
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Millennials are youtube persons. If they think about sadhguru they can start learning his ideas by tping his name on their android or apple device.
I think that is fine. Wisdom can be found anywhere.
It can be found in cartoons, in children’s books, random websites, random people who think about these human life issues.
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(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: I love reading about history. But this is not the issue here. We are 21st century Anthropocene era people. I am only arguing that yes, religion has a point in many issues that are concerning us as 21st century people. But no, we cannot keep living our religion in the way people did in the beginning of the 20th century. So one solution to this is atheism. The other is the new thought movement. I think there is some potential in the second too.
Atheism as a solution?
Well, if the person is in a cult that harms the person, for example, it convinces you that you should starve yourself and you should be happy that you are brainwashed, it is best to leave that group. The people of Heaven’s Gate had that attitude. They were happy to be brainwashed. A few of the members said it out loud.
Also, they are happy that they will be extending their lives by committing suicide so that their soul gets transferred to the alien spaceship that was behind Halley's comet.
Scientology: If you are a member and you leave and you speak about the problems of scientology, they call you a squirrel. They send agents to follow you everywhere you go. They might station themselves near your house and film you 24h/day. They make all your personal details that you told them public. What a fine example of human beings. They don’t realize that they make themselves look like shit.
The catholic church: If you badmouth Jesus or say something against doctrine, they hang you or burn you. Just like the scientologists, they make themselves look like shit. Although they stopped doing that centuries ago, people still talk about it.
They do good things as well, such as hospitals were run by them.
Right now, they look like shit since they are against gays and trans.
I’m sure a lot of priests want to accept gays but Jesus wants his church to be shitty.
The mormon church (LDS): if a family member leave the religion, a lot of them perform shunning. They don’t realize that they make themselves look like shit.
Maybe the parent wants to continue contact with their child that left the church. Some ask them many times to return.
This makes their religion look like shit.
Some parents don’t do the shunning thing.
The church is also against gay and trans. I’m sure that the top leaders are struggling. Right now, they have doubled down, they show themselves to be absolutely certain that Jesus wants to get rid of gays and trans (They must go to HELL).
Other christian sects also have that same shunning thing. Amish and Jewhova’s witnesses.
This makes their religion look like shit.
Apparently, the top leaders of the Jewhova’s witnesses broke down. You don’t need to shun anymore.
Big Jehovah's Witness Changes | Women Can Wear Pants Now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmFtpAZrCc
By Owen Morgan
Length = 1:13:00
^^^^^shunning policy
(You don’t need to watch it. It is a very long video)
This is an old video. In this time period, shunning is important. This was 1 y ago.
Jehovahs Witnesses Want Their People To Shun Children
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7gJWOJ7LYY
By Owen Morgan (Telltale)
Length = 21:07
^^^^^This is how Jehovah’s Witnesses program their children.
It is about a teen getting shunned by her parents. The video might be targeted at both parents and children. They want to make the parents feel ok with shunning their kid.
This is the kind of thing that cults do.
We were also talking about Global Warming.
If that is what you mean by new thought, these are issues that no religion can solve.
Global Warming comes from engineering and mass manufacturing.
Science is nice. It is a way to learn about how the universe operates.
Science doesn’t contain instructions on what policies to apply and how to run multimillion size cities.
When you go into mass manufacturing mode, it creates ecological problems.
One or two amateur chemists dumping potassium dichromate down the drain is not a big deal. When you have a company that dumps megatons into a river, it becomes a problem.
When you have millions of people using antibioticts for generations, you get antibiotic resistant bacteria.
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(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: And I feel like saying this because, using this knowledge to create cult like structures (like religious dictatorships or sects in which people are exploited due to their spiritual misconceptions) is something we need to point out and warn people. In the late 90’s there was this boom of religious sect with UFO cults committing mass suicide or a Yoga oriented philosophy carrying out attacks in the subways of Tokyo. Than after September 11 there was this rise in political Islamism + all these caliphates who wanted to murder people “for God”.
I think the UFO cults is something that is much older than that. They probably started in the 70s.
I only know of the Heaven’s gate cult that was a UFO religion and they did suicide.
All these religions, Heaven’s gate, mormon, islam, judaism, christianity, hinduism, I don’t see why the members don’t commit suicide.
Because if you view this life as hard, as troublesome, as ruled by the devil or something and you are going to die to go to some paradise, why not do it today?
If you believe that by killing the traitors of god will get you into paradise, why not kill people today?
As an atheist, I don’t kill people because I want a well structured society that has a strong scientific organization who’s focus is on learning. Also, I don’t believe that there is a paradise. Even if there is a paradise, a god can’t convince me to kill others (Abraham was convinced to kill his son). That god can go fuck himself.
If something breaks, I view it as a challenge.
-If you fail at an exam, study more and try again.
-If your TV breaks, figure out which component failed.
-If your roof fails, get some wooden boards and materials and fix it yourself.
-If you have some body issue, go to the doctors and mechanics and they will install a new heart or kidney.
(April 2, 2024 at 11:05 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: the deeper teachings of most religions do not really contradict one another.
Which ones?
