Does the Quran support Theocracy?

[Leonardo17]

Grand Nudger:
 
“You, according to you, think we have it more right than magic book.”
 
- I didn’t say that. I said that atheism was in many ways a safer ground with less room for mistakes. So if someone has no religious / spiritual affiliation, I don’t see a problem with it.
 
Yet: If you or someone else decides to go spiritual, there is some potential benefit there. And that’s what I am about here. That’s my area of interest.
 
“Because what you call "spirituality" we call "humanism"”
 
- On a personal level, I think I moved beyond those distinctions. I am ok with both
 
Last Part:

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I am not being diplomatic here. Or maybe I am, but I am still very serious.
 
One of the teachers said here was going to Church with his family back when he was a teenager in the 1930’s (He passed away now he was a very old man). That he didn’t believe any of the mythology that was accounted to him there, which was something he was doing before becoming one of the main teachers of advanced meditation techniques during the second half of the 20th century (and beyond). So I am dead serious when I say that I agree with you on some issues.
 
And here is an example of the deeper issues we are facing right now:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hot-cant-brea...15354.html
 
Do you know the meaning of 110 C Fahrenheit in a tropical climate?
 
Many people in these countries are too poor to afford AC. Many of them are not even going to survive this.
 
I am switching the subject but, where is our science and technology? In many ways, we are more powerful than the Gods of most mythologies. But this isn’t really Covid-19, AIDS or even Cancer. Such a dramatic shift of temperatures has not happened on this planet except when we were hit by the asteroid Chicxulub 66 million years ago.  
 
But I am ok with your approach too. Being critical-minded is not a bad thing with all the BS people are trying to sell us out there.
 
My decision is more like “I decide to trust” some sources that are available to me. And advanced meditators don’t even do that. They are invited to “directly experience” the higher levels of consciousness. That’s what they do in Yoga for instance.
 
My position as a deist is that there is value in most of the “Great Teachings” of this world. I believe that your experience with Abrahamic Religion has been rather superficial.
 
I’ve told you many times, my approach is not this many prayers a day, staying hungry at this time of the calendar, believing in this or that mythology as it has been related to me by this guy or that guy. Then spread the word to everyone because everyone else is too dumb to get it the way I do.
 
I think I have some level of understanding on these issues. So I am taking the liberty of sharing my own personal ideas on some of the main issues of this world.
 
Ex: 1944 this week was when French women were granted with the right to vote (That happened in the month of April 1930 in Turkey). This year in the month of March was when they included abortion rights into the French constitutions. The reason why they did that was to avoid a Poland of US like scenario at any time in their country.
 
So I am like carrying this debate to the next level here.
 
When I was a kid there was this kid from a more traditional family system. We would openly ask him “Why do you believe in God, you know there are no Gods” and he was like “You know I prayed once and it happened”…
 
This is not the issue here. I am a believer in change. I think there can be ways of believing that should not provoke more scientific-minded people that much.
 
I am not saying that I found the Ultimate Truth. What I am saying is more like “Even with all that science, do we even know what’s in the emptiness around us?”
And Yes, I am critical of the pure technology-minded approach to life in general: Is there anyone here who would say no to breath clean air? To swim in lakes that were entirely unpolluted, to eat food that was grown without any harmful chemicals? To drink water that is free of micro plastics?
 
And this is not a “So is the Truth” type of argument. It’s more like “Yes, but what about that thing? What do you think about that thing?”
 
So this should be the general mood of our debate. Thanks
 

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Ferrocyanide:

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At this point I can say that I am a believer in psychiatry and/or works of therapy and counselling when these are necessary. I also believe in not taking ourselves too seriously. I’ve had friends for instance, to decide to not think too much about death because the phenomenon is simply too upsetting to them.
 
Final part: That’s one of the things I learned. Gurus / Teachers or spirituality does not have all the answers either. Technically it is beyond us to have all the answers (even if we end up as an enlightened being Like the Persian Poet Rumi or a Great Yoga Master like Yogananda).
 
So as I said: Science is valuable because it is science.
 
My proposal is that: If a “religious / pious” man or woman is messing with basic human rights and/or the rules of logic or science or the fact that our largely imperfect ways of social organization are simply the best way of governance that is available to us and that anyone (religious or not) should try to promote that way of living instead of undermining it (based on some interpretation of religion) – that person is making an error in a spiritual sense.

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Based on my limited amount of spiritual study, I am telling you that this is an Ego-based attitude. The man or woman in that case who is presenting himself / herself as “pious” might be the perfect fool. And this matters to me because there are way too many of them in our days. Because of the increased amount of communication we have today, these fools are in the computer screens of teenagers in Europe and are radicalizing those vulnerable individuals. So I thought that maybe there should be some sort of counter-balance.
 
BrianSodding:
 
- I would not be willing to throw away any of the benefits of modern society. But there are anarchist political theories. In some of those theories they want to maintain some of the gains of scientific progress while simply going back to nature and anarchy for everything else.
 
But you may be right. I don’t see myself as a worker in some agricultural land-plot nor as a military leader in one their armies. But I would try it if I had too
 
Ferrocyanide:
 
This is the field of Parapsychology and the supernatural. As I said, I am not an expert in that.

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Yet: If you have inner issues (like anger, guilt, toxic thinking, jealousy etc.) and you are unable to work it out, this can and will create physical illness of some sort. So in some part of the spiritual work, we do focus on these issues. Louise Hay + MD Mona Lisa Cruz has some very interesting work on these things and I sort of believe it. That’s why combat sports like boxing are seen by many as “The sport of real gentlemen” because it allows you to release all those repressed feelings while learning to care and think of your opponent at the same time.
 
But I won’t argue with you on the issue of prayer. It happened in Germany. A group of Reiki practitioners wanted to help a patient in the hospital. The Doctor just didn’t let them in so they had to send it from distance.
 
The fact is: I don’t think there is real evidence for that. I mean yes, there are studies that seem to show that people who are prayed for have better rates of recovery (and some people would crucify me for saying that), but yes, there is plausible deniability there too.
 
But still: the benefits of regular meditation on the brain have been measured. We are activating the frontal lobe of our brain which is associated with greater impulse-control, creativity and rational thinking.

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You will find-out that people in real-life who approach spirituality the way I do are usually very well educated, intelligent, critical minded and very well connected to the realities of our times.
 
In fact, maybe the problem is that we are a little too connected. I know people who still put their plastic waste into the ordinary trash can. If I was able to do that, it is possible that I would not have turned into a spiritual person in the first place.